5 Lessons from 300 Garbage Trucks That Burn Through Tires
🔧 Topics Covered:
Overview of waste management fleets and their truck types
Tire selection, wear, and performance in waste applications
Fuel economy, damage resistance, and maintenance practices
Retreading and casing management challenges
Environmental and operational realities of garbage truck fleets
Brand-specific insights: Michelin, Bridgestone, Goodyear, Continental
Discussion on electric and natural gas garbage trucks
Duraseal technology and its decline in the waste sector
Show Notes:
Episode: 5 Lessons from 300 Garbage Trucks That Burn Through Tires
Host: Joseph and ROI Rob
Runtime: 38 minutes
Summary: Host Joseph and tire expert ROI Rob dive deep into the world of waste management fleets — exploring what keeps garbage trucks rolling, literally. From tire types and wear patterns to retreading practices and fuel considerations, this episode unpacks the complex ecosystem behind waste collection vehicles. The conversation sheds light on how fleet managers balance cost, performance, and sustainability in an industry where every turn, curb, and casing counts.
Listeners gain rare, inside knowledge of how major tire brands perform in extreme waste applications, why retreading dominates the industry, and what’s next for fuel and electric alternatives.
What You'll Learn:
The four main types of garbage trucks and how they differ
How fleet size, route type, and geography affect tire wear
Why fuel efficiency ranks lower than durability in waste fleets
The real-world lifespan of steer and drive tires — and how retreading saves money
How casing management and mounted wheel programs work behind the scenes
Why electric garbage trucks remain impractical (for now)
Insights into tire brands’ performance and why some technologies, like Duraseal, are fading
Links:
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Transcript:
00:01 [Music]
00:34 Good day and welcome back to Around the Bead podcast. I am your host, Joseph Pehanick, and I am joined as part of our
00:41 fleet series with ROI Rob to talk about one of my favorite topics, garbage, the
00:47 waste business, and the tires that keep it rolling. Rob, you ready to kick the
00:52 tires? Absolutely. Let's roll. So, I I was so pumped about this episode. But I was thinking about you in the waist
00:59 business and one of the things that is really unique for you when I think of all the guys that I know that sell tires
01:05 that consult on tires that are advising fleets is you do it across the board.
01:10 And what I mean by that is it's it's brands Continental Goodyear Bandag MRT
01:17 Michelin Bridgestone you have all the experience on the brands but it's not just the truck piece of waste. You also
01:26 do the landfill piece, the transfer stations. Um, you're a soup to nuts as
01:32 they would call it, waste guy. Absolutely. Um, not by design, but life brought you that way. Yeah. Just
01:39 experience and, uh, just took me in that direction. And what I love about it is every time I talk to you about it, it
01:45 seems like you're still learning. You're still willing to say, "Hey, I learned this about this this piece of the
01:50 business. You know, how this tire is functioning in this application." You've had a really open mind this whole time.
01:56 Yeah, absolutely. So, today at at least if this goes over, we can split it. But
02:01 let's start with the garbage truck side, right? For for people out there,
02:07 civilians outside the tire world who are just thinking about what are we talking about? It's the trucks that are coming
02:13 to pick up your garbage every day. What's a garbage fleet size? What does it do? You know, give us give us the
02:20 basics. Sure. Um, and so you got you got a multitude of of options there, right?
02:27 So sizes are anywhere from typically 30 trucks to 300 trucks, right? In one
02:33 location. Really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. 300 30 to 300. It just depends and varies per location, per uh
02:41 like in San Francisco, you've got a huge fleet, right? Um versus in major metro
02:47 California, you may have 30 trucks, right? Okay. So, but say median 6075
02:53 somewhere in there. Yeah, somewhere there is a good number. Um, and then you've got you kind of got I'll call it
02:60 four different styles of trucks for the most part, right? You've got a front loader. Yeah. You've got a side loader.
03:06 Yeah. You've got a rear loader and you got a rolloff truck. Okay. That's kind of your kind of your bread and butter
03:11 for every fleet is going to have some quantity of each of those for the We got to get editors get pictures of these on
03:18 the show. Okay. I'm with you. Yeah, [Music] absolutely. So, um different size
03:25 fleets, pretty standard entire size. Um, and what they do, um, you'll have, uh,
03:33 you know, distance traveled with these trucks can be, you know, some will will go out and and leave, uh, their their
03:40 yard or their home site and spin U-turns and culde-sacs all day long and never go
03:46 over 30 miles on a day or something like that, right? where you'll have others in more of your rural areas where they're
03:53 going to drive 15 miles, 20 miles to their first stop and then they're going to make four
03:59 on that road and then five miles to the next. So they could put 150 miles on in
04:04 a day, right? So I guess I never really considered there to be that much variation. I mean I I really thought
04:10 you'd come in and say, "Hey, they run 120 miles a day, 250 miles a day. It is what it is. Same stuff." But there is
04:16 some variation. Yeah, there is some variation. Now, per location, uh, most of the
04:23 trucks in a location are going to do very similar routes. Yeah. Right. Uh, you know, same trucks going to pretty
04:29 much go in the same route every day, but they'll have it's pretty similar to what they do. Is is fuel economy a
04:37 consideration on these trucks? I mean, you are and and what about the truck brands? Uh, not I should I'm skipping
04:42 ahead here. What about the truck brands? Are they all running Freight Liner? Are they all running uh a certain type of
04:48 brand? Um, no. You've got Peterbuilt, you've got Autoc Car. Uh, Battle is a
04:53 new brand out there. Yeah. Um, where's Battle made? Honestly, I don't know. Uh,
04:59 I'm just starting to see them more and more into the fleets. Um, are they hydrogen? Are they electric? Are they
05:05 tapping that kind of zero emission market? We're getting there. Um, natural
05:10 gas is bigger and bigger with them. Um, hydrogen's coming. Electric still isn't
05:18 really feasible in the garbage truck world. Yeah, I would think it would be. I mean, it's lower miles than linehaul,
05:25 right? And they come back to the same base every day, so they can charge overnight. They're running daytime.
05:31 There's Is there nighttime garbage? No, not usually. Um certain fleets will have
05:37 different different stuff like they'll pick up in uh commercial areas in some
05:42 nighttime stuff but uh I had one fleet they kind I would not want that job like
05:48 garbage truck driver commercial areas middle of the night. No picking up uh
05:53 you know the back alleys of restaurants big dumpsters. No that's I'm not signing up for that. Yeah probably not the
05:59 funnest job. Yeah that's a tough dude right there. Yeah. You know, the electric thing is is interesting because
06:06 you can't not run your garbage truck during a day, right? So, and the amount
06:12 of times it the amount of time it takes to charge those batteries and the batteries are heavier, which means the
06:17 truck can carry less. So, I had one fleet pretty close to us um suggest that
06:23 they would need to own three times as many trucks as they do now in order to operate with electric. Yeah, that's
06:30 that's not feasible. I mean, not with the way these city contracts are. No. And imagine how much a a new electric
06:37 truck is going to cost versus your standard diesel or natural gas truck, right? Yeah. So, and then and put
06:43 charging stations and gosh, it's it it'll become a mess. That's a whole other podcast. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's
06:49 another world. Okay. So, fuel economy, is it a consideration? Is is wear more
06:55 of a concern? uh or uh tire damage. I mean, that seems to come up time to time
07:01 uh that, hey, my drivers are going to curb tires and you know, yeah, what's the priorities for a waste fleet? Uh I
07:08 would say the priorities is um uh wear, right? So, a waste fleet will
07:15 fuel is not the priority because they scrub the rubber off of the tire before
07:21 it has a chance to really wear out. And the tires that go on are designed to handle scrub, not to handle, you know,
07:28 hundreds of miles at 60 miles an hour, right? So, um, so yeah, fuel ranks
07:34 pretty low as far as the conversations we're having with a fleet. Uh, damage ranks up high. The tire has to have the
07:40 ability to handle some curb damage, right? Um, and then we retread a lot in
07:45 those fleets. And how does the retread handle that lateral scrub of that tire turning all day long? So, you said a lot
07:52 there that I want I want to dig into. Um, curb damage. I mean, I I still don't
07:58 hear a lot of garbage truck breakdowns. Um, so, uh, is that something that's not
08:05 seen? Is that is that just a a perception of mine that isn't true? I mean, how often does a garbage truck
08:10 have a ERS call? The they'll have quite a few ERS calls. One of the big
08:16 differences in the garbage industry is a lot of the fleets have gone to their own
08:21 tire techs and their own service trucks. Okay. So, what we're providing them is
08:26 either loose tires delivered to them or we're providing a mounted wheel program
08:31 where they have mounted on their own service truck. So, they're handling that on their own, right? So, we're not
08:36 getting ERS calls for them all day long. certain fleets we are uh we have one fleet that runs uh I guess and I didn't
08:43 explain this when I said the different kinds of trucks but it's the transfer portion of it so they go from the
08:48 transfer station to the landfill and those are a tractor and trailer. Yeah. Uh we probably do
08:56 gosh I would say we do at least one ERS event for them per week going to the
09:01 landfill. It could be two per week u but that happens quite a bit. the units that
09:07 are going actually into the landfill. So let's let's come back to that when we talk about Duracal and like flat
09:13 proofing solutions. Um you mentioned retreading. Retreading is is probably
09:18 more prevalent in garbage than any other fleet any other fleet in the US. Yeah,
09:24 absolutely. What what kind of wear uh mileage wise are we seeing on retreads
09:30 and the new steers? Um give us a range. So, new steers, uh,
09:36 and I'm going to talk to a couple majors because it's where we have the most data right now. Um, anywhere between, say,
09:44 8,000 miles to 13,000 mi on a new steer.
09:49 Retra, say that one more time. 8,000 mi. Yeah. To 13,000 mi is what they get on a
09:55 steer tire. Yes. Woof. Yeah. Okay. So, and then on uh the drive application
10:03 in a retread, that's still I mean that that seems low, but
10:10 then at the same token I'm saying to myself, well, 5,000 extra miles, if you're averaging eight and you get 5,000
10:17 extra miles, that's like 60 points plus. Yeah. Improvement. That's huge. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay.
10:23 So, um, and then you step it over to your your drive position and your retreads. Yeah. Um, again, anywhere in
10:31 that 8500 mile range to the 12,000 mi range is typically what we're seeing.
10:37 13,000 mi. It's kind of similar. It's weird. Um, and then, believe it or not,
10:43 if you take that new tire off the steer and step it back to the drive, I guess it's easy to believe. It gets
10:49 significantly less wear, right? the torque and the pressure on it. I see. I feel like on the last data set that you
10:56 sent me, the the drive tires and the drive tires were substantially less than the steer tires in terms of wear, like
11:03 20% 30% somewhere in there. Have do you have Have you ever tested a new drive
11:09 tire in the drive position? Yes. Yeah. How does it work? Uh it actually uh it
11:15 doesn't perform as well as the retread does in the drive position. Really? Yeah. Why do you think that is? I think
11:22 it's compounding maybe. Um, so that steer tire, you know, is is constantly
11:29 that all that weight pushing down in the way they design it to handle that weight.
11:34 Um, I I think it's just designed the rubber that's meeting the road is
11:40 designed different to handle the characteristics of the job. Let me let me identify this for the audience. So
11:46 you got a a Bridgestone or Michelin Exus is the is the waist higher. The Bridgestone is the 860. M870 now. 870
11:54 now. Okay. So if you took an 870 or an Exus and you slap that on the drive,
12:00 you're saying from a mileage standpoint, you get more out of the retread than you would the new tire.
12:06 Yeah. Yeah. In a fleet we just tested um they were averaging with the Michelin
12:12 retread per 302. Per per 30 second. Yeah. Okay. But you're going to get less 30 seconds out of a retread, right? And
12:20 you're going to pull that way sooner than you are a new tire. No. No. So on a steer axle, typically
12:28 you're pulling the tires sooner than you are in a drive axle because your legal limit is is taller on a steer axle,
12:35 right? So, we want to pull them by 632 seconds on a steer axle. Yeah. And we want to run them down to four. Uh, and
12:43 they can run them to two, but typically around four on a drive axle. It seems like a bunch of rubber wasted like
12:50 pulling these things as soon as they are. I mean, that's nuts because you only have what, 22 30 seconds. Mhm. So,
12:56 you leave four 30 seconds on the table. That's that's a little less than 20 points. 18 points. Yep. And the and the
13:02 big factor of that is is casing life, right? So that original tire when it's
13:08 worn out becomes a casing and we can retread that casing. And data and studies have shown that the more
13:14 preventative we can be with damaging that casing, the better life it'll have
13:20 for the retreading future of it. No, I I get it. And that's one of my major criticisms of retreading as a whole. I
13:26 mean, we we supply retreads, right? That's it's a substantial part of my business, my life. But when I look at it
13:33 from a fleet perspective, I go, "Okay, well, I'm pulling this stuff." You know, you're it says in the book that you can
13:40 get seven 10 retreads, says that you can wear it all the way out and you're doing all this forecasting based off of
13:46 wearing all the tread, but you don't you you end up people are pulling them at higher and higher levels because they
13:51 don't want to lose a casing. Right. Absolutely. Okay. So, uh, my theory is
13:57 that retreading really started in, uh, waste because they wanted the the
14:02 cheapest possible option. They were concerned about curbing the tires. What do What do you think about that
14:08 perspective? And I it's evolved. It's evolved quite a bit now. Um, but you think that's how it initially started?
14:16 Yeah, I would I would say so. And I think um I think a lot of it has to do with
14:22 tires being uh they kind of can can destroy tires if they're not careful. So
14:29 that leads to the cheapest option, right? Like hey, we're going to ruin them anyway. Let's put it let's how do
14:35 we get this cheaper, right? How do we save money on it? Plus, they're not going at high speeds most of the time. So, you know, they don't have that
14:42 liability that many fleets face when they have retreads. Yeah. Um what what
14:47 about air pressure and and maintenance? I mean when you look at a waste fleet versus any other fleet out there,
14:54 better, worse, same, indifferent, unknown. Um from a maintenance
15:00 perspective, from a maintenance perspective, um it's really it's really company
15:08 situational, right? And and how they have their texts perform.
15:14 Um, it has the it has the the ability that the to actually be
15:22 worse because of the environments they're in, right? And the amount of flats that can incur regionally in and
15:28 out of landfills, in and out of transfer stations where garbage is dumped, right? Yeah. But uh the attention to detail on
15:35 them is become uh so great just because of their ability to destroy tires so
15:40 easily that I feel like they do a pretty good job of maintaining it. Yeah. Okay. So your your feeling is garbage fleet is
15:45 better maintained from an air pressure perspective than the average of all fleets. Yeah. Okay. All right. Uh mixed
15:53 service tires um uh the two models that we mentioned um those are in those
15:58 regional urban applications. I feel like they're not as common in other
16:04 applications, but would perform well. Um, uh, it's just that all position is
16:10 such an economical tire that why pay the premium for an XUS or 870 or any other
16:17 mixed service that's provided by hundreds of other tire brands out there? Absolutely. Um, uh, you think it's
16:23 underutilized tread? Yeah, I think it I think it has its place. Um it definitely could do well in
16:30 other environments. Um you start to look at how they build
16:36 it as well widths, right? So the majority of the waste industry is on uh
16:41 the tire size is a 315 80R22.5. So the retread companies build with
16:50 retread to to put on that tire and they won't build like an XUS and and again
16:55 it's underutilized. Yeah. uh for some of the smaller narrower applications, a low pro 22 or an 11R22, right? Sure. So, um
17:04 some of that's pretty interesting and would serve like I mean you would just immediately think an XUS in uh a grocery
17:12 fleet would be amazing, right? They're scrubbing in and out of Yeah, that's where I'm going with this. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. So, um but the size tire,
17:19 the way they build the trucks and what's standard just is not the same. Sure. Um, I also think retreading's got to play a
17:25 component in that. You know, they're building these casings for retreading, for waste. Um, and if you're not
17:33 retreading, then that simply doesn't pencil to overpay for the quote unquote casing. Absolutely. Which which brings
17:39 up a a topic I want to go through is casings in waste. Right. You buy two new
17:46 steer tires and you're running all retreads on uh the rest of your axles.
17:53 You're you're not going to generate enough casings, correct? Okay. Used tires where
17:59 the the core, so to speak, can be used for retrading. And you're not going to generate enough to feed your fleet. You
18:05 eventually have to buy new tires to run on drive axles or you have to buy cap
18:12 and casing, right? And then you you factor in uh damaged tires.
18:18 Um, I haven't seen a lot of it. Uh, situations where there the repairs are
18:23 just too expensive. Yep. Um, I would think that's with the way retrade repairs are skyrocketing right now. Uh,
18:30 fleets got to be saying, "Hey, I'm not going to spend $100 on freaking repairs." Yeah. Right. Um, I still see
18:36 it happening, but I mean, that's where I would want to advise fleets, hey, consider that before you just run it
18:41 through the cap shop. But I guess at the end of the day, how do you manage that
18:47 uh that supply because that tracking of you're always going to run short on
18:52 casings in order to retread? Yeah. And it's it's a constant battle for us because we have to we have to m maintain
19:00 relationships with uh what we call casing jockeyies in the world, guys. That that's what they do is they just
19:06 hunt for companies that aren't retreading and purchasing casings. And then on the other side internally, what
19:12 we're doing for the fleets is we have to track their it's a casing management
19:17 system. We have to understand where they're at in their inventory levels at
19:23 all times to know what they're going to need to buy next. Well, and that's my point. I'm trying to put myself in the fleet manager role. I can't imagine on
19:30 top of everything else I'm doing trying to consider, okay, where are my casings? Um, are they in retread? Are
19:38 they not? Are they in my fleet? How many years in are they? How many are going to
19:43 have to get pulled in the next couple months? How many are going to not make it through the cap shop? I I respect
19:50 giving myself some credence here. I think I would blow that up in like three months where I go, "Okay, holy smokes.
19:56 All of a sudden, I need a bunch of new tires. I need a bunch of caps. How do I need an answer? I'm calling up Rob.
20:02 Somebody help me. I need to get trucks out on the road." I didn't realize that 50% of my fleet had seven-year-old
20:08 casings that I'm pulling from service. Yeah. Yeah. And think about it. Your your cost of the of a recap just for a
20:15 round number, let's say it's $300 and then you add a casing to it. Now it's $450, right? So last month you bought
20:21 all your own retreads and now this month, I mean, your budget is kind of doing this thing if it's not super
20:27 monitored and and really dialed in. Or another another one. Okay, I'm spending
20:33 300 bucks for the retread uh plus time, effort, energy, etc., etc. Then I'm
20:38 going to spend $80 worth of repairs and then that casing is at 7 years and why
20:45 would I not just buy and then I I don't I'm not able to make that decision unless that's right in front of me.
20:51 That's got to be incredibly hard. But there's savings there, right? Yeah, there absolutely is. So, and then you
20:56 take that that's on its fifth retread and it's seven years old and uh now it's
21:02 got, you know, $400 worth of repairs in it and it doesn't live the life of that
21:10 tread because the casing fails, right? It's out of warranty at this point. You've lost it. It's It can be messy. It
21:16 really can be. It's a tough one. And it's it's kind of something we've started talking to fleets about and
21:22 trying to understand what the true total cost of ownership is. Yeah. Um but the
21:27 mindset is you got to retread. You got to retread. It's cheaper. It's cheaper. It saves money. Right. So, well, it's
21:32 it's a process thing. I mean, you've heard me say this before. Retreading is to big fleet what Salesforce is to Big
21:40 Corp. Yeah. It it it it it made sense in the beginning, but now it's this huge
21:47 bureaucracy within everybody's built processes around it. Sense. Yeah. Yeah.
21:54 So, uh, your your waste fleet, uh, from what I from my notes, and this is this
22:00 is going to be a little old school, says that you're going to pull that thing after 8 years. That you're trying to get
22:07 seven plus retreads out of it, and you're trying to wear that thing down to
22:12 no more than 230 seconds, but get as close to that as possible. What's the reality in the waste world today?
22:21 Uh the reality is is probably closer to five retreads. Okay. Maybe. Yeah. Um the
22:29 reality on where is you I rarely see a tire going into
22:35 the retread plant under 430 seconds. A lot of them are closer to 7 30 seconds.
22:40 And and I've heard guys You've taken me around to to yards and guys say, "Yeah, I pull them at seven." Yeah. So when
22:47 they when they kind of break it down, they kind of understand that what a mechanic or or a tire guy in the
22:54 industry at a waste fleet makes an hour. Now, if they've got that truck in the shop and they're doing brakes on it or
23:02 or any number of standard maintenance on it and that tire is at seven, yeah, what
23:08 it cost them to then put that truck back out into the fleet and bring it back in 3 weeks later when they're at 532
23:15 seconds and change those tires, it just isn't worth it, right? Doesn't make the financial sense to them. So, that's kind
23:23 of part of it. And then obviously like we talked about they want to catch the tire in time to maintain that casing
23:29 because they need to get five to seven retreads out of it, right? So um it all
23:35 factors into it and it's pretty interesting. Uh and something that we truly would like to bring more awareness
23:43 to these fleets with the data that we're doing with our data team. Yeah, it I I I like this. I mean, I I bet your data
23:50 team is is like pushing all cylinders against this because you can you can really see some gains for them. Yeah. Um
23:57 and uh I like how much maintenance is involved, meaning they have full-time people, right? They're bringing that in.
24:03 I bet mismatch duels is is very rare, right? You got time, it's in the shop, you're swapping them, you're matching
24:09 them out. Yeah. Um what about mounted wheel programs? Are they running mounted wheel? And for the for the listeners out
24:14 there, mounting a wheel program is uh where you're not mounting a tire on the wheel when uh that tire is worn out or
24:22 emergency scenario. You have a inventory of mounted tires and wheels so that for
24:28 whatever reason you want to swap them out, you're you're not putting them in a cage, you're not airing them, you're just spinning them on and off. Yeah,
24:35 absolutely. A lot of them have the mounted wheel and what we do is um we'll even sort them in their uh where we keep
24:42 their inventory by iners and outers on wheels, clean wheels, dirty wheels, stuff like that, right? So, we make it
24:47 really simple for a tire tech or a mechanic to go grab a set and go and go
24:52 slap it on. Um typically when they're changing, they'll a lot of times just do
24:58 an axle if they're doing it right. And then if it's if it was slightly mismatched or something, they'll save
25:04 those as spares and match them up later. Yeah. So that that is done pretty well in the garbage fleets. Most guys are
25:10 really good at keeping keeping them matched up. We don't see a lot of mismatch stuff. Now brandwise,
25:16 retreadwise, uh what are you tracking now? Um Bridgestone Bandag obviously
25:22 being the biggest player in waste with Republic Services and Waste Management
25:28 contracts. Um Michelin and Goodyear still seem to be uh heavy in in certain
25:34 regions in certain fleets and have top performing products. Um what are you
25:39 tracking? Is is Continental in play? Yeah, Continental is in play. Um we
25:44 obviously do track the most of Michelin and Bridgestone. Yeah. Um could
25:50 your in our region is not as relevant at the at right now. It feels like Michelin
25:56 and Bridgestone have more of the contracts across the board. Uh we are we are tracking some good years and looking
26:02 at those we're tracking some Continental and the steer application. Continental hasn't really had a position in the
26:09 retra application for us to look at. Yeah. Um but definitely in the in the new tire application and there's some
26:15 others coming to to market a little bit more and more. Uh Toyo has a tire. Um,
26:21 probably everybody has a tire, but what you're really seeing in the market, but the it's the combination of the tire and
26:26 the retread that that gives them the full solution, so and uh uh on a
26:33 Goodyear side going to them, I want to talk about Duracil at one point there was a trend towards Duracil in waste.
26:40 Yeah. Uh Duracil being this inner liner that they produce in certain tires. You see them uh a lot in government
26:46 emergency services. Um, but uh I'm seeing less and less of it in waste. Um,
26:54 are you seeing the same? If so, why? Um, I hardly see it at all in waste anymore.
26:60 Uh, and the big reason is because retreading is so dominant and it's a scary item to retread uh with the
27:07 chemical inside that a a bandag and a Michelin retread plant won't retread a
27:14 Duracil. I see. So you have limited options on on retreading. Yeah, it really it really handcuffs you. You have
27:20 to go back to the Goodyear retreader to get it taken care of. So that's a component I didn't really consider. Uh
27:27 the first thing that came to mind is the premium on the tire and then the ERS breakdowns. So I I would assume a DR a
27:34 Duracal is $50 $75 more tire maybe 100 on a 315. Yeah, it's definitely it's
27:40 definitely more. You do that across an entire truck, let alone across an entire fleet. And how many breakdowns do you
27:47 have per year in a in a waist truck? Yeah. If you've got if you've got let's
27:52 let's just go with the the standard number that there's two, you know, two a
27:58 year per truck and then now you're dealing with the Dura Seal. And the idea is it can help, but if it
28:05 doesn't, now you're dealing with a whole another avenue of a repair process and replacing a tire, right? And training
28:12 and levels. So, and then I'm also thinking about the theoretical value the
28:17 casing, which the value of casing is a is a is unique to each fleet. How however they value it could be worth $0,
28:24 could be worth $120. Um, but that Duracal, if it can only be
28:29 run through a Goodyear plant, then it has no value to any fleet that's running. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Trying to get
28:36 five retreads out of their casing, right? Yeah. And maybe they've realized that another brand might provide them a
28:41 better better value. So, so in a waste application, chances are you're dealing
28:47 with a tire guy, a maintenance guy at a ground level who's actually physically mounting the tires. Yeah. Absolutely.
28:54 That's got to be an advantage if you're dealing with somebody who has tire knowledge, who's actually servicing them, seeing wear patterns. Uh, how does
29:02 that change your way to approach a fleet versus say a line hall fleet or another
29:07 fleet that doesn't have a tire guy on the ground? Um, there's there's a bit of a a common
29:13 bond there, right? Like they understand some of the things I'm talking about and I understand the things they've been
29:19 through. So, uh I guess I don't have to train them on as much of an
29:25 understanding, but yeah, it's it's pretty interesting. And and the trend is, uh the waist guys are all trying to
29:33 recruit from the tire industry. They're tire guys. Yeah. You know, not just training them from the ground up anymore. Uh they'll get a a tire
29:40 company, send a tire guy in to help them out, and then they want to recruit that guy. So, they're getting some pretty experienced guys across the board. Yeah.
29:47 Uh to try to maintain their business. So, Uh, enough said there. Yeah. Yeah. Stop
29:53 doing that, guys. Well, what um uh what are waste fleets
29:59 asking for that maybe the tire industry isn't providing now? I mean, it it sounds pretty complex. I didn't expect
30:04 us to spend a half an hour going through it and seeing all these different angles. Um, but where is there an
30:10 opportunity for tire dealers, manufacturers to improve for a waste fleet?
30:17 Um, I think there's a couple of opportunities. Uh, there's been, you know, a bunch of different options in
30:25 tire pressure monitoring systems to help them out and understand. Yeah. Some of them haven't worked very well. You know,
30:31 there's ones that strap around the inside of the wheel. There's some on the valve stems. They've had errors. They've
30:37 had issues and they haven't quite given them the details they want or the drivers don't report it anyway. Yeah.
30:42 So, they're looking for some new stuff in that. And there's some there's some exciting options coming with that stuff.
30:48 Um, I think uh I think a new tire that's priced accordingly with a retread that
30:55 could eliminate the need for retreading would be super exciting to fleets going down the road. So, let let's delve into
31:02 those a little bit. Um, playing devil's advocate on the uh the air pressure
31:07 side, they all come back to HQ every night. So the chances that they have air
31:15 pressure issues got to be pretty limited, right? Yeah. Yeah. They in
31:20 theory, right? Yeah. In theory. I I say that I mean we we have a small logistics fleet and we run the the Continental
31:27 sensors in them. You can run those in whatever tire you want. Um and yeah, we
31:33 still have pressure issues. We're still constantly chasing that. Um, but I would just think with a waste fleet, you spend
31:40 that kind of money on pressure sensors, uh, it's hard to get the return. Yeah, it is. Um,
31:46 and you know, their their problem and and what's exciting about that Conti system you mentioned is for people in
31:54 people in the office or in the maintenance department to have a visual of that, right? so they can essentially
32:01 do something if they want versus having a driver having to write it up on his log and turn that paper in and tell them
32:07 that a tire might be low. The real problem isn't necessarily that the air pressures are slightly off and could
32:14 cause fuel or wear issues. The real problem is when they have a flat and want to know that they have a flat so
32:20 they don't have an ERS event on the side of the road with a blowout when they're trying to collect the trash that Yeah.
32:25 Yeah. Okay. So, so, uh, air pressure, is that a com a major component when you're
32:32 seeing a fleet getting 8,000 miles out of their steers versus 13,000? I mean, what are the the key factors there
32:38 between worldclass fleet maintenance, 13,000 miles per steer versus plus+
32:44 versus eight? I mean, it will absolutely have uh have a factor in it, right? if they're running um if they're running
32:51 well under inflated, they're going to they're going to flex that casing a lot more and they're going to wear that tire
32:58 out faster. Yeah. So, it absolutely has a lot to do with it.
33:03 Um and and maintaining proper air pressure is super important for those guys. They all have a pretty good
33:08 understanding of where they need to be, right? So, so it absolutely affects it. Yeah. And then uh certainly uh a new
33:17 tire on the drive axle. I mean that seems like a no-brainer to me. I mean if you're saying that a the bestin-class
33:23 steer cannot run on the drive axle as well as a retread and you're seeing that
33:30 low of miles, there's opportunity for innovation there. Yeah, there is. And and innovations is that you hit it the
33:37 nail on the head, right? Because what we see now is in the waste industry, they make one tire, right? It's it's it's a
33:44 tire that goes on the steer and then it goes back to the drive and it's typically the same exact tread design, right? Whether it's a new or a retread
33:50 across the board. They're not necessarily making something in a new tire specifically designed for the drive
33:58 application that may provide longer wear. They want it to wear well on the steer and do a great job. And then cap
34:04 good is the main focus of that tire. Yeah. It seems like the hardest application in the whole truck. Yeah.
34:10 Right. If you if you can solve wear issues or improve wear issues on a drive axle with anything retread or new tire
34:18 um or air pressure solution or what have you, that's where the major gains are going to be had. Yeah. Yeah. And most of
34:25 their uh focus and research has been on making that retread better to handle
34:30 that position. So, you mentioned on uh another podcast
34:35 uh as we went through the data of one of the waste fleets that uh
34:40 $10,000 to $50,000 in savings uh is very accessible on a 50 to 70 truck fleet.
34:48 Absolutely. Um based on premium to poor maintenance. Um do you see that that
34:55 increasing over time? I mean, do you see maintenance practices getting better or you see them staying the same? Um, how
35:01 does your team evolve uh waste fleets going forward? You know, right now I'm
35:08 kind of seeing a little bit of a trend to I can't say I see it getting better right now. Yeah. As uh companies are
35:16 kind of pinching and trying to get tighter and save money, I I feel like they're saving it in the wrong place by
35:22 minimizing that preventative maintenance. Yeah. Um, so I see uh the
35:27 cost probably ticking up for them in their tire budgets in the near future. Uh, I think what we can do to help them
35:34 is with the data team is as we get into more fleets and help and show them more data and help them understand what's
35:40 going on with their fleet. Yeah. They can actively make changes that are going to uh help them in the long run, right?
35:48 We can go in and show that maintenance manager that yes, you saved
35:54 $30 an hour on having an extra techout in your shop every day, but what it's costing you is x amount of more flats
36:02 per month or yeah uh irregular wear or so on and so forth. Right. And truly
36:08 having numbers is is just an awesome thing. It's not just a salesman with a pitch. It's databacked research. Yeah.
36:14 And you've you've heard me mention this on other podcasts that uh connecting
36:20 those dots and it it's in all types of business. It's not just our business. It's as economic times change,
36:28 CFOs, controllers, CEOs, uh, any type of manager, they're looking
36:33 at things on a line item by line item basis. Um, I I don't think we can really blame anybody for that. If you look at
36:40 one line item and that has grown dramatically over the course of the last couple years and your business hasn't
36:45 grown, you're trying to reduce that. It's that correlation between my
36:50 maintenance spend versus my ERS versus my fuel. And the same thing can be true
36:56 in uh HR, right? Uh from uh from people employment. Hey, I'm spending this on
37:03 team events and we've spent too much. Let's cut it down. And then the turnover number increases. Yeah. So it it it's
37:09 it's almost an accounting puzzle that needs to be solved. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think the best thing we can
37:16 do is with our data team is provide them the data to help them solve the that accounting puzzle. Well, I I'm certainly
37:23 going to be asking you to solve that puzzle and see what we can do to improve waste going forward. Uh this has been
37:29 incredibly exciting conversation. U there just seems to be improvements to be had. This is this is one that the
37:35 entire industry should be tackling full full frontal. Absolutely. And that's what we're working on doing right now.
37:41 Okay, Rob, any last words for our listeners out there? No. Uh, thanks for having me again. And, uh,
37:49 I love sitting here talking about fleets. There's so much more we could dive into and take them on tangents that they're probably not even ready to hear,
37:55 but uh, we'll do it again. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right, let's air this one up. Thanks, Rob. Thanks, Joe.
38:04 [Music]
