Best Solid Tires for Loaders? Trelleborg vs Maxam vs Setco
In this episode of Around the Bead, guests Mark Auvil, Rob Bolduc, and Phil Jandrokovic debate the best-performing solid tires for loaders. From the Trelleborg Brawler to the Maxam MS708 and Setco, the crew dives into performance, durability, cost, and real-world applications. They discuss how heat and maintenance impact tire longevity, the effects of manufacturing quality and contamination, the future of press-on solid tires, and which brands truly stand out in today’s market. If you’re in material handling, construction, or heavy equipment operations, this debate delivers the insights you need to make smarter tire decisions.
🔧 Topics Covered:
Overview of 25-inch solid tires and their key applications
Major industries using solid loader tires (waste management, recycling, scrap yards)
Top brands and manufacturers (Setco, Maxim, Brawler/Trelleborg/Yokohama)
Evolution of solid tire design — from molded to press-on and wrapped types
Cost, performance, and market size of 25-inch solid tires
Factors affecting tire longevity (operator, surface, torque, and rotation)
Comparison between two-stage and three-stage rubber construction
Manufacturing methods, contamination, and quality concerns
Cost-per-hour performance and data collection challenges
Show Notes:
Episode: Best Solid Tires for Loaders? Trelleborg vs Maxam vs Setco
Host: Joseph, Mark Auvil, Rob Bolduc, and Phil Jandrokovic
Runtime: 36 minutes
Summary: In this episode of Around the Bead, the team dives deep into the world of 25-inch solid tires, exploring why these massive, high-cost tires are the standard in scrap yards, transfer stations, and recycling centers. Hosts Mark, Phil, and Rob unpack the leading brands in the industry, debate performance tiers, and trace how solid tire technology has evolved over the last few decades. The conversation highlights key issues like manufacturing quality, cost per hour, and the critical role of tire rotation and data tracking in maximizing performance and lifespan.
What You'll Learn:
Why solid tires dominate in high-scrub, high-hazard environments
Which tire brands lead the market and why
The real-world differences between molded, press-on, and wrapped tires
How tire construction methods—like three-stage layering—affect durability and comfort
The true cost drivers behind a $40,000+ tire set and what influences performance
How maintenance practices like regular rotations dramatically impact ROI
Why data collection and cost-per-hour tracking are reshaping the future of the solid tire industry
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Transcript:
00:01 [Music]
00:34 Around the bead is back and we've got the squad in studio, Mark, Phil, and
00:40 Rob. Today we're talking about 25 in solids, the 5,000, the 10,000, the
00:45 $15,000 tires that go on loaders. Today might be a debate, no promises. We might
00:52 all be in agreement. We have not prepped. We have not talked about this. Um, but we're going to talk about the
00:58 most expensive and largest solid tires in the world. Gents, are you ready to
01:04 kick the tires? Yep. Absolutely. So, first and foremost, let's go around the
01:10 room. Let's name some applications in which these tires exist. Anybody?
01:16 Transfer stations with garbage companies. Okay. Scrap metal recycling. Uh, auto parts recycling.
01:24 Those are the big three right there. Big three. Yeah. Give me some companies.
01:30 Uh the pick and pulls across the country. Yeah. Um Waste Management
01:35 Recology Republic. Republic. Um the big ones. Waste Connections. You name it.
01:41 SSA. Is it SAA or SSA? The scrap metal guys. SA Recycling. Yeah. Okay. So
01:46 pretty pretty niche industry. Y absolutely. All right. So you got uh niche
01:52 industries. We've got garbage. We've got transfer stations, we got uh scrap metal, and we got pick and pull. Um,
01:59 what are the big brands out there? Uh, Brawlers, one of the big ones.
02:05 Brawlers owned and produced by who? Yokohama. Okay. Under what label? Um,
02:12 oh gosh. Trellor. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, a Trailborg branded model brawler
02:18 produced by parent company Yokohama. It's a lot now. Yep. Ty Cushion. Uh Ty
02:26 Cushion Sentry. Okay. Uh Setco. Um uh
02:31 Maxim is a big one out there. Um
02:37 he's got some others coming into the space, but not big branded yet. Like uh Fentino starting to make a 25 inch,
02:43 right? Well, Galaxy makes one. Galaxy, right? Um yeah, but yeah, you got a few
02:50 out there. Okay. And who who leads in who who would you put in a tier one category?
02:56 Probably the brawler. Tier one at this point. Brawler Maxim. Yeah, in my opinion, I I think uh you know, you you
03:04 really got to uh give a nod to Setco. Uh Setco and the Junkyard Dog. Uh and then
03:10 uh to Rob's point, Brawler, and uh Maxim is has is has made a strong push into
03:16 that tier one category. Who who came up with this concept? I mean, didn't didn't
03:21 setco or or or Sentry or somebody design this thing to begin with? Yeah, we were we really got to uh we really got to
03:29 acknowledge uh Setco when when uh we talk about who came up with this concept. Uh you know, for lack of a
03:36 better way of saying it, uh that junkyard dog is is the crescent wrench of solid otr. That's one of their
03:42 models. Yeah. Is a junkyard dog. Yes, sir. And you put setco in tier one? I do. You do. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. So,
03:51 uh, they designed it. They created How long has it been in existence? I mean, I'm I'm not I'm gentlemen, I don't have
03:56 enough gray hair yet to to know when that was. 20 years. Yeah. I It predates
04:02 me. It predates me. I would I would say every bit of 30 35 years. Yeah. I I've
04:07 seen it uh probably seen it for 30 35 years, but
04:13 it's really gotten attractive about 20 years ago. It seemed to really come on
04:18 strong 25 years ago. It's more or less industry standard for those. It's not
04:23 optional. I haven't been to a landfill or a scrap metal recycling facility, anybody running pneumatics, solid or
04:30 radials, foam filled. I mean, it is the solid tire and nothing else. Yeah. Well,
04:35 in, you know, in landfills, we run a lot of pneumatics. Yeah. Okay. Um, but in uh
04:40 in high scrub, high high uh uh flat repair, high hazard area, Yeah. it is
04:48 the standard. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You'll still see some of the recycling centers where they're doing, you know,
04:54 paper and plastic and stuff like that. They're running pneumatics or foam fills, but for the most part, yeah, it's it's a solid tire everywhere you go.
05:02 Okay. If you're if you're just trying to prevent nail holes, yeah, you can go uh
05:07 you know, a radial pneumatic, maybe a a pneumatic tire with foam fill. But if
05:13 you're talking about total destruction of a tire, solids is the way to go.
05:18 Okay. How big do you think the market is? 25 inch solids.
05:26 We'll call it not even say North America, we'll say United States.
05:31 Take a minute. There's no wrong answer because I don't
05:36 think anybody has the answer. If I had to guess, it's 50 million. 50 million.
05:43 Gosh, in terms of number, there's there's 50 loaders in Northern
05:49 California running them. So, extrapolate that out across the country, there's probably a hundred, right? So, I mean,
05:56 and what's a set cost? 40 grand a set. So, more than 50 voters. Take that.
06:02 Yeah. So, take that across the country. It's a It's a pretty significant number. Give me a number. 50 running in one.
06:08 Come on. Yeah. It's you. You got 50 million, Phil. What do
06:14 you got? 50 million, but we're all guessing. I'll say hundred million. 100. I'll split them. 75. There you go.
06:22 I definitely lean on on the lower end. There's some bigger markets there. Um,
06:28 but there's a lot of empty space in between California and New York. Um, I bet I bet there's 20 million on the
06:37 western seabboard and 40 on the eastern seabboard.
06:43 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, sizable market
06:48 with relatively few players you think about it. Um, uh, cost per hour. Do we
06:55 have anything else? I mean, this is a huge expense for for a facility. I mean, they're buying $40,000, $50,000 worth of
07:03 rubber, sometimes rubber and wheels. We have data on how these things run or we just We are collecting data. Um Jesse uh
07:12 Nunez, the the young man that's on some of our other podcast, uh he is actively
07:18 collecting it. We have uh another uh gentleman, Dustin Martin, who's collecting it. Yeah, actively. And uh
07:25 yeah, of course, you know, there's no basic it it goes from one extreme to the other depending on the operation, but
07:31 yeah, we are collecting the data. So, so to get to get to Joe's question here a little bit more and the funny part of it
07:38 is uh Mark, how many years in the industry you got? Uh in February 40
07:44 years, Phil 31. I'm about almost 20. Joe, 15. Okay. So, who here has data
07:52 experience cost per hour on these tires at this point, right? AC across the
07:58 industry, we do it very poorly. We've done it very poorly. It's crazy. And we just established that it's anywhere
08:03 between 50 and hundred million dollars a year in tire sales. I I make two arguments on that is it's hard, I think,
08:11 because it takes so long to measure. Yeah. Right. like who's willing to track
08:16 that thing for a year, two years, three years, four years. It's a huge
08:22 investment. Absolutely. It's a huge investment and we haven't even gotten to stages stages of rubber yet.
08:29 And it's something we've started doing. Um we've got a good fleet that's got about 13 loaders in it in one location.
08:35 So, we're and we're capturing the data is a little off because they do take so long to run
08:41 and it's so early on, but you know, you're talking 20 to 50,000 hours these these tires can run on a on a loader.
08:48 So, put that into terms of of days and 20,000 hours on a set of tires, you're
08:55 saying? Okay. It's it's possible. uh you know the the
09:02 one caveat that that I' I'd put out there is is it's all about application. It's all about operator and whatnot. You
09:09 know uh the surface that the uh the loader is operating on and whatnot. So you know to go ahead and say that a uh
09:16 26525 as an example is capable of running 20,000 hours. It's it's going to
09:22 differ sight to sight location to location. Absolutely. So how much is it going to differ? We say a 26525 set is
09:29 call it 40 grand. They get 20,000 hours. That's uh two $2 $2 an hour. Um what's
09:37 what do we think the variances on that? It's it's huge because uh with the with the new loaders coming
09:44 out, the hybrids. Yeah. The torque variances is talking about with electric transmissions and everything else. Yeah.
09:50 Right. Um versus the the old standards. Um the torque is sometimes 50 60 70%
09:58 more. Um it's it's going to be changing. There's there's not going to be a
10:04 baseline for the next several years in my opinion.
10:09 So we think the variance is is 50 points, 100 points. So it could run 20,000 hours, it could run 10,000 hours.
10:17 Yes, very much so. Agree with that. Yeah. So that's I I find that a little
10:22 shocking because I think of a loader at a landfill and I'm like okay I mean they spin the tires, they're pushing up piles, but for the most part it's
10:30 they're similar applications. So you're saying they're not. You think there's a huge variance there? Yeah, absolutely.
10:36 Um you depending on whether they're in a pit, whether they're reaching to to
10:42 load, whether they're pushing to load, there's all different types of setups, right? So, um, and then you're picking
10:48 up cars and moving them around and you're on even surfaces and how that handles and spinning in gravel versus on
10:54 concrete. Some of them, some of them have concrete floors, some have steel plate floors.
11:00 Yeah. Um, which one of those is wears faster?
11:06 Concrete. Yeah. Yep. Why? The abrasion factor. Exactly. It's that
11:13 surface of the floor. So, is concrete the the the hardest application from a floor standpoint? Could be gravel. And
11:21 it gravel and it depends depends on the circumstance. It depends if it's out in
11:26 a yard where it's muddy, is it hard packed gravel? Is it loose stone? Is it
11:33 cement? It it all goes into play. Is it loading carry? Or is it just pushing? If
11:40 the guy's picking it up and carrying it, that's a lot easier than going into a pile, pushing, spinning the tires. Are
11:45 are we seeing solids in other applications or are we seeing larger equipment come into those? Are there are
11:52 there lo are there solids going on 988s? Um, is it basically 26525 295 and below?
12:00 I'm seeing 295s. Um, 29525s and below. There's some uh 1833s out there. There's
12:08 some stuff out there, but it's a very small market. Okay. Cat 988s. Um I I've
12:15 seen Cat 988s run at like Snitzer Steel in Oakland and up in the Pacific Northwest, but uh for for the most part
12:23 it's few and far between. Yeah. Going as high as that that size. Yeah, I would agree with that. So, uh I think you're
12:30 the only one in the group who's built a tire. Maybe some retreaders here. Yep. How do you make a a good solid tire? How
12:36 do you make a cheap solid tire? So, um you know, uh in the production of a a
12:42 solid otr tire, if you will, um historically what you've done is is
12:47 you've gone ahead and you've wrapped a wide swath of of rubber. Whatever the
12:52 section width of that tire or the width of that tire is, you've wrapped that rubber around a hard base. Whether that
12:58 hard base be a hard rubber base in the case of a press on tire or a hard steel base in the case of an expanded wheel
13:05 solid. And what you do is is you continue to wrap that that rubber around that hard base until you get to a
13:13 desired OD in weight. Okay? And uh that tire can uh you know back in the day
13:18 that tire used to be uh uh cured in an autoclave and then lathed believe it or
13:24 not lathe to a true round whereas today most tires are uh compression molded to
13:31 to that final finished quality. But uh uh still there's another manufacturer
13:36 that utilizes a uh a strip winder in order to go ahead and produce their product. And uh you know there there
13:43 there's inherent benefits to doing making a tire that way. What are the benefits? Well, you know what uh I
13:50 believe later on in the podcast we'll talk about contamination and whatnot. But if you have contamination,
13:56 contamination will lead to delamination where the tire will come apart. And if
14:01 you've got a swath of rubber that's that big, what ends up happening is is you have a catastrophic failure in the tire.
14:08 Whereas if you're if you're going ahead and you're producing a tire at say 17 mm
14:13 width and you're constantly uh stitching that rubber back and forth as you build
14:18 that tire, your area of contamination or or that that uh patch of failure is
14:24 limited to that 17 mm. What do you guys mean by contamination? Contamination is
14:29 anything that happens in the factory where Oh, I thought you meant in that field. You're talking about factory
14:34 contamination. Yeah, factory. Could be an employee sweating. Yeah. Could be a handprint. Could be uh guy sets his cup
14:43 of coffee on the tire while it's getting built. It's We've seen all kinds of stuff.
14:49 Okay. So, uh stages stages of rubber, something we talk about on material
14:55 handling 101, but this exists in a 25 inch solid. I think it's it's important. You've got three feet worth of rubber
15:02 there. What is two- stage versus three-stage? Why isn't there four stage?
15:08 Yeah. So, uh uh three-stage is is relatively new uh to the solid otr
15:14 industry. I I'd say uh it started coming around about 10 years ago. Um, there's a
15:21 couple of manufacturers that manufacture a three-stage solid otr product, but uh,
15:26 just like the manufacturing of a forklift tire, what you have is you have that hard, uh, 90 durometer base. And
15:34 then what you have is is you have probably 70 durometer rubber that meets the road.
15:41 And right in the center, what you do is is is you put put a soft inner core in place. And what that soft intercore does
15:48 is it serves to go ahead and provide for added comfort for the uh the operator
15:53 and it also uh and maybe more importantly for the buyer. It goes ahead and it ensures that the tire runs at a
16:00 cooler operating temperature. Runs cooler, wears longer. It wouldn't
16:06 be more beneficial just to have a harder rubber that's lasts forever.
16:12 The cool uh the number one enemy of a tire is heat. the cooler we can make that tire uh run, the longer that the
16:19 the tire will last. I got a question for you, Phil. So, apertures, you know, I I
16:24 see a lot of tires with apertures, but whenever I see a tire with aperture, it seems like it's wearing in the middle a
16:31 little bit more. Yeah. Explain that to us. Yeah. So, uh what you're doing in
16:37 the case of an Aperture tire is is you're removing wearable rubber from that tire. And uh what what you see in
16:44 the case of an aperture tire mark is is you see uh what we would we would refer to in the industry as cupping. So what
16:51 happens is is is where where that that load is is laying on that tire that
16:57 center will tend to cup out in a uh in an aperture style tire. And the apertures are just the holes that are
17:04 are around the tire. That's correct. That's correct. Phil, I' I've heard this from you before, but I'm going to ask
17:09 it. Is there any reason to have aperture holes in a solid otr tire today? I'm of I'm of the impression, guys, uh, you
17:16 know, having built tires, uh, I started my career building tires, and I I believe that a manufacturer can make a
17:22 tire, uh, as soft or as hard as they want to make that tire. Yep, I've heard that. Um, I believe that, uh, aperture
17:29 holes are, uh, totally perception on the part of the end user. And uh uh from a
17:35 manufacturer standpoint, uh wherever there's a void in a tire, that's less
17:40 rubber that's going into that tire. So ultimately a more profitable uh product.
17:46 Oh, okay. All right. Um tell us a little bit about molded versus press on. Right.
17:54 So the I'm assuming, but maybe you can educate me on setco. Did they come out
18:01 with a tire that was molded to a wheel first or was it a 25-in solid tire that
18:08 could be pressed onto the existing former pneumatic style wheel?
18:13 The original 25-in solid that came out. I don't know the set. I don't know who
18:20 what they built first. So, the the original tire would have would have been an expanded wheel solid. And I'll tell
18:26 you guys, there's there's actually been a full evolution, if you will, of the solid otr tire. When uh solid otrs first
18:34 came out, what it was is it was it was very much what I would describe as being big wheel and and little rubber. Um the
18:42 second evolution of the solid otr was to uh produce what was was referred to as
18:48 as a super deep product. Okay? where what happened is is you took big wheel
18:54 and and you made a smaller wheel and you made up the OD by wrapping more tire around that around that steel wheel.
19:01 Yeah. Um a third evolution would have been uh and and the way that they they
19:07 cured those tires is they hung them in autoclaves. Well,
19:12 is is this uh is this vulcanization, if you will, of of the rubber took place.
19:18 What's an autoclave? An autoclave is a big oven. Yeah, it's a big oven. But uh
19:24 in any event uh as uh as these tires would uh would cure, what would happen
19:30 is is they they would become eggshaped. Yeah. So the tire would have to uh come out of the autoclave after the uh the
19:37 curing process and be laid to a true round. Um then the next evolution would
19:43 have been to uh go ahead and put that into a mold and compression mold that product so that you have more of a uh uh
19:50 aesthetically pleasing product, if you will. Yeah. More of a true round product. And then uh the last evolution
19:57 of this product that we've seen is is going to a press on product. And I'm of
20:02 the belief that a press on product is is is really the future of this industry.
20:08 Yeah. because you're reusing wheels and it more versatility to it. Yes, sir. So,
20:14 that's something I feel pretty strongly about that the molded wheel assembly is is a bit of an entrapment, right? You
20:20 have to trade in your existing wheels, which are valuable to anybody, right? They're the OE wheels and you've got to
20:27 trade them in for a molded wheel assembly, which you can only use one time and then trade it back to whoever
20:32 built the tire, right? And then when you go to sell the equipment, if the if the future purchaser wants to go back to a
20:39 pneumatic tire, you have to buy pneumatic wheels. Yeah. It gives them no versatility to try other tires. They're
20:47 they're trapped in that program. And one of the hardest parts of building any of
20:53 those tires is getting the rubber to bond to the steel. That's my understanding one of the the biggest
21:01 issues um that we face today. Would you say that's correct, Phil? I would. Yeah.
21:07 Do you see an application where one is better than the other, the expanded
21:12 steel? That's a good question. High torque maybe pushing steel. Is the expanded steel to mold on a better tire
21:18 or I don't see a benefit one way or the other. You know, haven't haven't had any
21:24 application issues one versus the other. Right. The only time I've ever had a request for a moldon was in a skid steer
21:30 solid tire application where they would spin the pressons on the wheels. That was honestly probably more to do with
21:36 the old wheels that were worn out than it was the application. So, yeah. And you could certainly thin those wheels
21:42 and stop that, you know. You know guys, one of the things that I'd say to you inherent benefit of uh what I would call
21:51 a wrapped solid otr product is is you have a lot of you have a lot of creative
21:57 license at the factory level to go ahead and make that tire as is as is as is as as big and OD as you want to make that
22:04 tire or as wide as you want to make that tire. Whereas if if we're dealing with a press on tire that that's molded, we
22:11 we're confined to how how large we can make that product. Yeah. How would you make a tire cheaper?
22:18 Well, I'd start with taking the center core out of a a three-stage tire. If I wanted to make it cheaper, I'd uh go
22:25 ahead and always make a traction tire over a smooth tire. I put after holes in in every single tire I want I made if I
22:32 were going to make a cheap tire. I've I've heard the term filler. What does that refer to? Taking more of
22:40 the good stuff out and putting filler in. So filler is uh it's a reference to
22:45 what we call in the industry crumb. And all crumb is is it's a uh it's it's a
22:53 it's an ingredient, if you will, in a recipe that takes up space in a batch.
22:59 And that's all it does. It just it just takes up space in a batch. Is it good? Is it bad? Does it cheapen it up a little bit? It cheapens up product.
23:06 Okay. I I've heard a rumor that some can put scrap uh metal and bits of pieces of
23:13 scrap metal in that like bottom stage uh in order to cheapen that. Is that a reality or is that just fiction? I've uh
23:20 I I've heard rep reports of uh you know finding trash and and rubber compounds
23:26 and whatnot you know and uh guys at the end of the day what I'll say to you is the old adage is true. You truly get
23:32 what you pay for. Yeah, I bet. Okay. So, uh we need some data on this clearly. I
23:40 mean, we we've got data or we got debates on solid uh pressons versus mold. You call them wrapped. Is that
23:46 what you're saying? Wrapped. You want to change the whole industry to wrapped? No, we could we could we could do it,
23:52 Phil, if you want to. I mean, I don't I I'm pretty sure when people are buying tires, they're like, it looks black and
23:57 round. We could call it wrapped. Okay. wrap tires versus press on tires. Uh we
24:04 got Setco, uh uh Maxim and Trailerborg
24:09 at the top. If you put them all in the same application, how much variance you think there'd be? Just tier one.
24:20 I think uh make something up within 10%, you know. Um 10% you think? 10 10 to
24:27 15%. And I think if it's a if it's the same exact application, I think they're they're all running pretty damn close.
24:35 Um Mark, I'd respectfully disagree. Um and you're the expert, so I'll take that. I've got uh uh um I've collected
24:44 data over the years that would suggest that u uh the strip wounded uh product
24:51 that Maxim is producing the MS708. Uh that tire is capable of outrunning a
24:58 setco junkyard dog by as much as 30%. Really? Yes, sir. Wow. Impressive. So
25:03 that says a lot. You're um especially because you put setco in tier one. So,
25:09 you're putting it in tier one, but you're saying a maximum can outrun it by 30 points.
25:14 How much could a tier one outrun some of the cheaper stuff?
25:22 Quite a bit. Quite a bit. 60 possibly. Well, I think part of uh putting all
25:28 three in a tier one, but Maxim outperforming is uh Maxim is relatively
25:33 new to the to the segment, right, with their product. I mean, they're not a
25:39 year old, but they're in terms of longevity. Setco has been doing it a lot longer, right? Yep. So, and just has a a
25:46 more well-known name in the industry, but I I think the Maxim product has been doing really good and and opening some
25:52 eyes for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. And and I think they have um I think they have some technology behind them that maybe
25:59 some of the competitors don't have. Yeah. Just starting a factory from
26:04 scratch. I mean, you go to a factory that's built in the last 5 years versus one that was built in 1934 like I was at
26:11 last week, it's a big difference. Absolutely. Huge difference. Yeah. Yeah.
26:17 Okay. So, we think there's some some big variation there. You're saying 30% variance just in the tier one segment.
26:23 Um, how are we going to pull some data? We got to come back to the audience with something. Joe, I'm going to tell you and and I I
26:31 I'm really passionate about this in in this space, data collection is king. Uh
26:38 data collection goes ahead and it leads into timely rotations and timely
26:43 rotations is ultimately what goes ahead and makes that tire last as long as it can possibly last. So, we're obviously
26:49 not talking about air pressure. There is no air pressure. It's a solid tire. But you're you're referencing that ser
26:57 swapping the tires front to rear. Yes, sir. A key component to that tire wearing. Yes, sir. Yeah. It's it's it's
27:03 huge. It can't be stressed highly enough. Yep. Could you get better wear
27:08 out of a set co if you maintained it, if you swapped it, rotated it appropriately
27:16 compared to a maximum? Because you get 30%. All things created
27:21 equally. I would I would still give the uh the edge to the the maximum in the 708. Okay. What if it was 20%.
27:33 Possibly. Poss. How many times does it have to be rotated in its lifetime? It
27:39 depends on the application. Like I I've gone into some applications that are rotating every 90 days and I've gone
27:46 into other applications that rotate every 60 days. So it totally depends on the Oh, pretty frequently though. Yes,
27:52 sir. Almost quarterly. Yes, sir. That's a bunch. Yeah. I mean, you think about
27:58 what it's going to cost to run a tire tech out there and and swing those things on and off. That's a huge expense
28:03 for the life of the tire. Yes, sir. But it does maximize the the return on investment. So, that's that's something
28:10 I'll challenge us on. Okay. We're going to look at cost per hour of a well-maintained tire versus a
28:16 nonwellmaintained tire. But at the same token, if you've got that much
28:22 maintenance involved, that's an added cost. You see what I'm saying? Like if you're going out and you're sending a
28:27 tire tech out to swap those tires once a quarter, regardless of the brand, that's
28:32 an added more or less fixed cost that needs to be considered. It's not just the tire rubber. Absolutely.
28:40 Right. You see what I'm saying? It's like as if you're on a truck tire and you you can get 250,000 out of a steer.
28:46 Well, if you only have to change it once, that matters compared to I'm getting 100,000. Even if it's cheaper, I
28:52 still got to change it two and a half times compared to the premium, right? Cost of ownership all the way through
28:58 cradle to grave. Yeah. Okay. So, we want to do uh some data testing on the top
29:05 tier being Maxim, Trailerberg, Brawler, and the Setco.
29:12 Um we probably pull some from from the the newbies, right? And the cheapies. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, if it's
29:19 if it's priced accordingly, I mean to a certain we we we we love to talk about premium products, but at the end of the
29:25 day, there are changeovers, right? They are selling equipment. There are applications in which hey, putting
29:30 something more economical on from a fixed cost perspective. Makes sense, right? Sure.
29:37 Yeah. I think we've got the I mean, we've got the data team tracking a significant amount of tires right now.
29:42 Obviously, it takes time to get that wear. Um, I would say by the end of
29:48 2025, we're going to have some real good projection numbers and start to be able to break down some cost per hour stuff.
29:54 So, but it's going to take some time. So, why why do you think it's only uh
30:00 Trailerborg is now part of Yokohama, but Trailer Brook Brawler was a niche company,
30:07 right? Really focusing on specialty for a long long time and and still to degree is. But why do you think none of the the
30:14 major manufacturers those are the controlling the top 30 40% of market share have ever tried to go into this
30:22 space? And I say that when you think about all these applications,
30:28 they do partake on the trucking side, in pneumatic landfill side. Um they're uh
30:35 they're certainly part of that end users journey and their tire programs, but
30:40 that one piece they're not. If I had to guess, I behind the scenes, I bet they've all delved into it.
30:47 They've all played with it, but they probably haven't been able to bring it to the market at a reasonable cost and
30:56 profitability for them if I had to guess. I' I'd say I think that's probably a
31:01 pretty good guess. Yeah. And in marketing capacity, brand
31:06 awareness, right? Like it's it's not the prettiest. It's not the funnest segment in the industry. And you still have to
31:13 have the dealer network behind you. Yeah. you know, even if even if one of the majors uh does produce it, they
31:21 still have to have the dealer network out there to understand it and be able to handle
31:27 a 10,000lb tire. Yeah, I I hear your points. And I think to my
31:34 to play a little devil's advocate for the group, I mean, Maxim did it from scratch. Yeah. Right. They they they
31:41 went from zero to hero uh pretty quickly. new factory from scratch, uh,
31:48 you know, right then and there. Um, and it allows, uh, it allows a competitor to
31:54 get into that fleet, right, to start selling those tires. Um, I think you're
31:60 seeing more and more of the 25 in solid um, at some of these facilities. Um,
32:05 it's growing in size. I mean, 50 to 100 million is not a huge number, but they
32:11 do delve into other specialty segments that are smaller than that. I mean, aircraft is tiny. Um, uh, but aircraft
32:19 is also very profitable as long as there's a very few players in it. Right. Right. I think there's only Michelin and
32:25 and Goodyear left. I think Bridgestone's Bridgestone still in it. Yeah. Tiny space. Yeah. Yeah. Something I've never
32:32 really gotten into. Yeah. And also, it's very few sizes, right? Manufacturers
32:38 love very few sizes. They only It was It's basically four. I mean, I don't think there's many even. And there's a few 20.5s, 20 25s, 235s, 265, 295s.
32:47 You've covered the whole the whole market. 90% of the market at least 90 99% of the market at least. The other
32:54 argument I'd make is they have the best engineers and they have the best compounding out of anybody out there. So
33:00 if they could build they can they should be able to build a better tire than anybody else. Well, and I think you're seeing them go to um other products. I I
33:10 I see on the drawing board some airless tires. They don't happen to be solid,
33:15 per se. Yeah. But, uh, you know, Michelin, major manufacturer, you know, they've they've got, uh, you know, some
33:22 airless built tires um that we're going to see on the market in the in the future. So,
33:29 I don't know if they're maybe stepping past the solid and going right to this next segment, if we'll see it that way
33:35 or not. You know, it's really interesting too when you look at uh you
33:40 know, you can consider it a material handling tire, right? So, look at the major material handling players in the world. You know, historically,
33:47 Continental, Solid Deal, you know, build as the top tier of those. They don't play in that segment either. Never been
33:53 able to build that tire and produce it. Yeah. So, it's kind of interesting with who has it and who doesn't and and maybe
33:59 diving into the reasons why at some point. Well, and we talked about this on material handling 101. Um, basically
34:07 every single solid tire on smaller size, not talking about otr, is built in Sri
34:12 Lanka, right? The best of the best are best of the best and the cheapies are built in Sri Lanka. But the majority of
34:19 those tires come from one country. Where is Brawler built?
34:25 Brawler is built in China. Yeah, China. Um, and Maxim is a Chinese subsidiary
34:31 built in Vietnam, right? Vietnam. What about the rest of them? What about
34:37 Setco, Tai Cushion, the rest of those guys? My understanding is SECO is all US
34:43 production. Setco's uh Yeah, STCO's Idabbell, Oklahoma. So, that's US uh
34:49 based production. And then, uh, Ty Cushion and Sentry, I got to believe uh
34:54 they're they're based out of China. What about the galaxies?
34:59 They might they might get rid of that now that I think about it. Now that Yokohama Yokohama bought Alliance Galaxy
35:05 group, the ATG group, they were building that solid and then they bought Yoko.
35:11 Then they bought TWWS. So I could see them going away with the Galaxies alto together. But where were the Galaxies
35:16 made? I don't know. I haven't even seen any of the galaxies, honest with you. Yeah, I
35:23 haven't seen one in the market in a long time, so I couldn't even tell you. I'm sitting here and I'm thinking with all
35:28 due respect, I I don't know. And uh and I and I don't mean any offense when I
35:33 say that, but uh you know, I I I just I don't see them out in the marketplace that that often. No. Um I'm with you.
35:42 Okay. All right. We got anything else on 25inch solids, guys?
35:48 I don't think so. About wraps that up, huh? Yeah. Okay, guys. Let's air this one up. Thank you. Let's do it. Thank
35:53 you, sir. Thanks.
36:02 [Music]
