2026 Market Outlook: Everything Fleet Buyers Need To Know
In this episode of Around the Bead Podcast, Joseph and Big John sit down with longtime trucking industry veteran Jason Fennell to discuss the evolving commercial truck market and the challenges facing today's fleets.
Jason shares his journey from the parts counter and service department to two decades in the tire industry before becoming one of Central California's leading truck sales professionals. Together, they explore how COVID-19, supply chain disruptions, and changing EPA and CARB emissions regulations have dramatically reshaped truck purchasing, fleet operations, and equipment pricing.
The conversation also covers the differences between vocational and sleeper trucks, the advantages and drawbacks of leasing versus ownership, and why many fleets are cautiously optimistic heading into 2026 despite several difficult years in the transportation industry.
Drawing on his background in both trucking and tires, Jason explains why proper truck specifications—and especially selecting the right tires for the application—can significantly affect payload capacity, fuel economy, maintenance costs, and long-term profitability. The episode concludes with a discussion on the future of electric and hydrogen-powered trucks and the importance of helping customers make informed, value-driven decisions rather than simply chasing the lowest price.
🔧 Topics Covered:
Jason Fennell's 38-year journey through the trucking industry
Transitioning from the tire business to truck sales
The current state of the Class 8 truck market
Vocational trucks vs. sleeper trucks
How EPA and CARB regulations are reshaping the trucking industry
Why truck prices continue to rise
Leasing vs. owning commercial trucks
The impact of COVID-19 on truck demand and supply chains
Why truck sales collapsed after the post-pandemic boom
2026 truck market outlook and buying predictions
Electric, hydrogen, and CNG trucks: Where the industry is headed
Common mistakes when selecting factory tire specifications
Tire maintenance's impact on fuel economy and operating costs
How dealerships and tire professionals create long-term value for fleets
Show Notes:
Episode: 2026 Market Outlook: Everything Fleet Buyers Need To Know
Host: Joseph, Big John, and Jason Fennell
Runtime: 68 minutes
Summary: Trucking industry veteran Jason Fennell joins Joseoph and Big John to discuss today's commercial truck market, the impact of emissions regulations, and what fleets can expect in 2026. The conversation explores truck sales trends, leasing versus ownership, the future of electric and hydrogen trucks, and why proper truck and tire specifications are critical to maximizing performance, reducing operating costs, and improving long-term fleet profitability.
What You'll Learn:
Why the trucking market became so volatile after COVID-19.
How emissions regulations influence truck pricing, purchasing decisions, and fleet planning.
The differences between vocational and sleeper truck applications—and why each requires a different sales approach.
The pros and cons of leasing versus owning commercial trucks.
What fleet owners should consider before investing in new equipment ahead of future EPA regulations.
Why truck specifications—including engine, transmission, axle ratios, and tires—must match the intended application.
How improper tire selection can reduce vehicle capacity and overall performance.
The hidden costs of poor tire maintenance and underinflation.
Why relationships, service, and technical expertise matter more than simply offering the lowest price.
Jason's outlook on the trucking industry and what fleets can expect in 2026 and beyond.
Links:
Visit our website for full transcripts and resources
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Transcript:
00:05
[music] Around the beat podcast, tire talk for trucking, mining, agriculture, and more. Your home for fleet solutions. Aiming to [music] inform, pioneer, and entertain the tire world in connected industries. Sponsored by [music] East Bay Tire, keeping essential industries
00:29
moving forward. Around the beat is back. I am Joe Pehanic joined by my co-host John Holsy aka Big John. And we have Jason Fennell, the infamous, famous, number one truck sales guy in all of Fresno County. Jason, welcome to the pod. >> Thank you very much. I don't know that
00:54
could feel those boots um >> as you're wearing them. Our audience can't see, but >> you can't see them, but I polished them for the occasion. So, >> they're looking sharp. >> Look. [laughter] >> Anyway, um >> it's a it's a privilege, sir. >> We're we're happy to have you on. We're
01:11
going to quiz the heck out of you. I've been excited for this. Uh we're going to talk trucks basically all morning. Uh this is our very first pod of the new year, 2026. Our first recording. Um, a lot's changed in the truck market, but you're actually former tire guy. You
01:28
used to be one of us. You've gone to the other side. How how great is it over in the truck world? >> I am extremely blessed. Um, [snorts] so to give you my elevator speech, I started off um I've been in this industry for 38 years. Started off running parts for Napa,
01:48
swept the floors for Hass equipment. I ended up working for uh the Volvo dealer in Fresno for seven years. I did outside sales, front counter, back counter, body shop, warehouse. Last thing I did for them was a service writer. Then I went to work for Central
02:05
California Kenworth uh as a service writer. Uh they sent me to Packar Warranty School, Caterpillar Failure Analysis class. And then I found myself in the tire business for 20 years working for a Bridgestone Bandag dealer. Um, now that I can truly say I was one of the best in the valley.
02:29
>> Yeah. >> Selling tires. >> You I I joke, but I don't joke. I mean, John and I have have worked that area for decades. You are a brand in itself, the Jason Finel brand. If you're in trucking, you know Jason Finel, whether it's the tire side or a truck side. Um,
02:45
you've been in the industry through and through. >> Correct. And also with my involvement with as a currently the chairman of the board for the Fresno Transportation Club and >> along with a a host of others, I help the California Truck Association Central
03:00
Valley unit to put on our um golf tournament. One thing I'll show you that I still can't get out of the business is >> the tread depth gauge. >> The tread depth gauge. >> Look at that. >> Old school tread depth gauge. Yes. >> Yeah. It's what sets me apart from my
03:17
competition in the business I'm in now. That >> when you're selling a guy a truck and you can walk up and you you [clears throat] pull out a tread depth gauge, you stick his tires. It may sound cliche. It may may sound corny, but you go, you know, if you crossaxle those
03:30
drives, you'll get another 30,000 miles. and they go, "What?" And it's just something that I offer that my friendly competitors >> I wish you wouldn't steal our jobs. Like John and I have to advise on some things. >> I'm happy in the lane that I'm in. And
03:46
and like I said, I am blessed. I uh I don't miss driving 354,000 miles a year up and down the valley from Stockton to Santa Maria. Um, I still do business with a lot of the customers that I had relationships with. It's one reason my um the group that
04:06
hired me was to go after business that they didn't have uh because of the relationships I had because of the um hopefully the the integrity and respect uh and the customer service I give um my [clears throat] customers. Now, do you do you target a specific segment or is
04:26
it it's all class 8 trucks, I'm assuming? But I mean, are you looking at sleepers versus construction fleets or it's >> I try to stay more in on my vocational side. Um sleeper business um that demographic and we can get into it later is um it's extra. >> It's extra.
04:49
>> It's I look at it as extra. I would rather myself because I'm more comfortable with transfer trucks, rolloff trucks, garbage business stuff that's more vocational. Um I have I have more fun building, specking, working with customers on the vocational side. Is
05:12
that is that because it's more consistent or I mean why why those versus sleepers? It's less volatile. It it does it does it work better with the brand that you're selling of trucks? The demographic of customer you're dealing with on the vocational side. >> Yeah. are um
05:43
bluecollar people that easy are are good to deal with. >> I'm going to trip over my tongue here. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> But that competing on the sleeper side, it is there's a lot of people that build sleepers and for some people that are just looking for the price, the product
06:06
that I sell is not the cheapest. Um, and it's, [clears throat] and again, we can get into it shortly, but the the there was a time where a larger sleeper fleet would be running their trucks up to 450,000 miles and then turning them in due to, and we'll get into it later,
06:26
but the carbon EPA regulations, they're having to run them longer. >> [clears throat] >> Um and getting trying to uh get back to your point, why do I why do I not go after uh the sleeper business? It's just um not that it's >> it's a different transaction altogether.
06:45
>> It's a completely different transaction. But again, just like anything, just like when we we're selling tires, you thought you sold the tire and and you're done with it. >> Yeah. when you sell certain people sleeper trucks, you they are calling you
07:02
Sundays. They're they're calling you all the time. No big deal. It's the service we give them, >> right? >> But it's uh high maintenance. >> So [clears throat] there's there's 200,000 trucks sold, class A trucks sold every year, give or take. >> And and from what I understand, the
07:19
market's been down the last two years. >> Correct. Um, what of of that 200,000 or in your market, how much is sleeper versus what you call vocational? >> I'd honestly say on the sleeper side that had to be close close to 70 to 80%. >> Wow. So, it's a huge market. >> It was huge.
07:40
>> Yeah. >> That was huge. You're saying >> it was huge. And in fact, in 2023, I sold more trucks and made more money than I ever made in my life. >> Mhm. If you >> hopefully you saved it. >> If you [laughter] if you and maybe don't any of my uh
07:57
esteemed colleagues take this the wrong way. Uh but if you're basing your mortgage, if your mortgage is based on the sleeper market, um you're probably going to lo lose the house. >> What about uh to like giant fleets like a a JB Hunt? JB Hunt night Transportation. Yeah.
08:21
>> Do they all have direct relationships with the factories? Are they still working with dealers? I mean, >> to say there's more direct with factories. I mean, even um passed away now, but like John Lawson, Lawson Rock and Oil. >> Yeah. >> He did work with a salesman that worked
08:39
for a dealer. >> Yeah. However, he did, you know, there's people that work, they have they have factory reps dedicated to builder, concrete, waste management, Allied way, Allied Republic. So, >> I guess what I'm asking is is we've seen massive fallout over the last two years.
08:57
I mean, over 100,000 bankruptcies, tons of trucks out of the market, but for the mega fleets, are they more consistent in their purchases? I don't know that I could answer that because I myself and who I work with, we do not sell those that large in our area.
09:17
>> I would think they would. John, what do you think? >> Yeah, I think they would too. Uh but but I also think we've seen a lot of the, you know, mega fleets downsize >> over the last, you know, really 12 to 18 months. So, I don't know how that affects everything, but usually them
09:30
guys are pretty dialed in on forecasting their purchases, >> right? The tough thing with forecasting and I remember years ago I was at a Bridgestone conference in Ontario and one of the speakers made a comment about don't chase the hockey puck. Forecast where
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the hockey puck is going and head in that direction. The troubling thing is we don't know where that puck is going. So you can make business plans. This is what we're going to do, >> right? And due to changes in laws, EPA carb um back shoot uh six years ago COVID.
10:11
>> Yeah. Has it been that long? >> It is. And and the only reason I know that is I was trying to prepare for this meeting and trying to get an idea where where we are with a barrel of oil. Currently, a barrel of oil as of yesterday was $56 a barrel. On April
10:34
of 2020, a barrel of oil was $19.36. $19.36. One month after co because no one's driving. >> Yeah. >> And it's just it the as the market fluctuates. But anyway, >> so give our giving our audience a picture of the the market. You work for there's Dameler uh Freightlininer is the
11:00
largest market share at correct 33% and then you've got uh Kenworth and Peter which make up Packar. >> That's correct. >> Right. When did that happen? >> When did PCAR what as far as they joined? >> Yeah. >> See, I didn't prepare for that test. [laughter] Well, you didn't have to
11:19
prepare for this. >> I don't have any. It's just something I always wondered. Right. Um, okay. So, they're number two at that 30% give or take. >> And then you have Volvo. >> Volvo at 10. >> Volvo Mac. >> And I keep reading that Volvo's dropping and dropping in market share. I don't
11:38
know that, but that's what I I read. I haven't verified the sources. Um, you work for one of the big two. Um, you don't have to say. Um, where do you see that market share going? You see it staying head head forhead? You see anybody up and coming? >> I think everybody is
12:01
everybody is just I think things are going to stay the same. >> Yeah. >> Um, obviously we like having more market share. Um I think things are good right now in that um orders are coming in. Um but people are um hesitant um to spend the money. Um
12:25
it's just when you're spending say a new sleeper truck. You mentioned the first one. And I hear the the first company that you mentioned, first company you mentioned on their sleepers, they're going for about $170,000 out the door. >> Is that is that what a Freightlininer
12:42
sleeper goes for now? >> You said it, not me. [laughter] >> Wow. >> But see there again, and I've heard you guys talk about first tier, second tier. >> Yeah. the nothing against any of >> the piece of equip you're buying the piece of equipment to to run it and make you money,
13:04
>> right? >> And again, trying to get you the best cost per mile, but with say the Pack Car brand, the Pack Car brand is more money. They would like to say, we would like to say that it's a better built product and your resale val is going to be better. [clears throat] The pack car line
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sleeper is going to run you 195 to maybe 207 and it's going up. >> I mean I when I think of that that equipment, okay, so we buy earth mover trucks, hand trucks. Um yes, it's got the truck and then the chassis in the hand. So we're upwards of half a million dollars at times.
13:44
>> Um it's amazing to me how much trucks have gone up, but that's the same as everything else. I it doesn't feel like it was that long ago that a freight liner sleeper was 110. Um, but at looking at what they do and how many miles they're putting on, it it seems
13:59
like it's in the range. It's just a very competitive environment. >> It is. And like you said, people remember when they used to buy a truck for 140 145,000. >> Yeah. >> Those days are gone. Um, getting back to my previous life, I remember selling Yokohama RY [clears throat] 1112A
14:19
trailer tires for 127 $127. >> That was a long time were the days. >> That was a long time ago. >> There's still trailer tires out there for 150. So, [laughter] I'm [clears throat] >> But it was just um even there's a vocational gentleman I'm working with
14:38
now has been a longtime customer I quoted him on the on a truck the other day. It was going to be$176 $176,000. And he was just going, "I have a tough time paying that." Yeah. >> Because he was used to 153. [clears throat] I'm >> like, I remember when Hairspray cost me
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$6. $6 a can. It's like $22 a can for the to keep this hair going. Now, >> Aquinet, man. Aquinet. >> No. [laughter] >> It's It's the best hair in the valley, man. >> It is the best hair. Does any of the um [clears throat] which one has the the better benefits as far
15:13
as I mean one of the big things we deal with in California is carb compliance? Is there one of the motors in and one of the brands that that is better suited to to align with you know the California initiatives? >> That's a good question. I think they
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going forward we they all have to be um in fact in 2027 and um I'm sure I'll get comments if I'm misspoke on this but uh um we used to have you had a California engine and a California truck and then you had the other 49 states. >> Yeah. on January 1st, EPA the way the
15:53
EPA regulations that are coming out, it's all going to be 50 state 50 state compliant. >> January 1st, 2026. >> January 1st, 2027. >> 2027. >> The new regulations coming out in 11 months are going to be um more stringent as far as um the knocks of the emissions coming out. Mhm.
16:17
>> Um it [clears throat] the price of trucks are going up anywhere from $8,000 to $25,000. >> Yeah. >> Um just to get the after treatment system and get everything in place. um I don't know if I want to use the word feds, but in doing this they're
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telling us that you also have to if if that's what's going to go on that you have to also um have your extended warranty on the after treatment system go from 5 years 350,000 miles to don't quote me but say six years 600,000 miles because they know that sensors and
17:03
other things are going to go bad and so the end user you guys the the government's looking after you John >> of course they are they always look after us >> but to get back and I sort of skirted around your your question um I think it's it's application
17:21
specific whether you're it's a a DD1315 Detroit Cumins packar Um, I think I covered most of them. Um, they're they're good engines, but just like, you know, we've done tires forever. It's application specific. When somebody says, "I want this." What are
17:41
you doing with it? Um, I just built a transfer truck for a guy. Uh, we started off with a with a 565 Cumins X-15. By the time we got done between the the the the transmission I put in it with the uh rear end ratio and everything, we dropped it down to a 525
18:03
and it's going to work perfectly when it when it gets here. So, >> is is is are the regulations increasing leasing? If you look at like a 10ear span because I'm going to take you back in time. I want to see this how we got to this moment. But is leasing becoming more
18:22
popular because of >> regulations? I would say so. And I'm surprised more people don't I'm not trying to put [clears throat] myself or anyone else out of um out of work. >> Y >> but some people it's not their model or if it did if they attempted to lease
18:40
maybe it didn't work for them due to the leasing company they were in bed with, >> right? um misled them on what the actual cost was going to be. >> Sure. >> Uh because on the leasing side, there's different ways of leasing the truck there with a with a full maintenance lease or
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>> you talk about predatory leasing tactics like PE people were taking advantage of people jumping into the market when trucking was booming and people coming in and off the street got a class A license. Hey, give me a couple trucks. I'm ready to go.
19:12
>> Oh, okay. You're talking about leasing a le leasing a u a sleeper truck. >> Talking about leasing in general. So when when John and I talk about a equipment, a leasing, right, leasing equipment has become popular for two reasons. One, because they're using it
19:27
part-time in the field. And the other one is there have been California or just general carb federal emission standards that have made it more challenging for farmers to have older equipment. Period. End of story. So they go, "Well, I'm just going to lease it
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>> from now on." So you see more tractor dealerships leasing equipment. And my question is is on a trucking side with everything that's going on, if you're if you own a transportation company or you want to be an owner operator, do you go just to heck with it? I'm not going to
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buy a new truck. I'm just going to lease one, turn it back in in three years because I don't want to deal with the with what's coming potentially in five to six years. >> That is some people's business plan. >> Okay? It's not everyone's business plan if you are
20:17
there again depending on your application vocational I I do see some vocational doing leasing and it works for them. >> There's a large um packing company uh south of us in Fresno. um my coworker was able to lease them some trucks as opposed to and but he it was a long
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process to show them how they have the trucks but that there's a partnership between us and them to maintain the trucks. Um there are still people out there that they want ownership. They want ownership of their transportation side >> and um and they're running a logistics
21:03
business on their transportation side to deliver the product that they're selling >> their product. Yeah. If they if they have their own product. Yeah. Then they probably have mechanics and so they're willing to >> There's a few there's um there's a steel
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company that I deal with in Fresno that they own their own trucks but we do all their maintenance. >> Oh, really? Mhm. >> Okay. >> So, again, it's just what are your plans and at the end of the day, it's about trying to trying to make a profit. >> Yeah.
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>> You know, um but I've seen um beverage companies, >> alcohol beverage companies. >> Yeah. >> Who decided to go leasing >> and I think they tried it for many years and it wasn't working the way they planned. So, I see them purchasing a few trucks on occasion.
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>> Why didn't it work for them? I I would think that would be a great fit for them. And you say alcohol. Don't all alcohol beverage companies sell other beverages now or No. >> Yeah, I believe they do. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I don't know. I can't answer why it went
22:11
uh why they decided against it. I know that they were with a leasing company. Um, and now I see them purchasing trucks again. >> Right. >> So, but you bring up a good point. I I always thought about this. I'm going, why why wouldn't you just lease the
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truck? If you're delivering these widgets, you make the widgets. >> Why have two separate businesses going? >> Yeah. But there's again there's some uh there's a thought that again I'd want to own these trucks and I don't want to be subject to um getting a lease getting a truck back
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that's not going to work for my application. But then on the lease side too, you never own the equipment, >> right? >> You're always it's like leasing a car or leasing or paying rent on a house. There's no owner, you know, at the end of the contract, you don't own anything.
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But like you said, it takes you it [clears throat] takes you out of making sure you're compliance compliant and keeping up on all the regulations. >> So, before we get into where we see this headed, November of 2025, truck sales, truck sales go to all-time
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lows since the Great Depression nationally. Mhm. >> November over November. December's almost 10% down, but December truck orders boommed to like an 10year month high. This past December, total truck orders put in, which I don't understand how you guys operate with these orders
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that people don't have to take them. >> That is absolutely wild that people just go out and say, "Oh, yeah, I'll buy 50 trucks." And the trucks come and they're colored and they're painted and it's a handshake and people go, "Oh yeah, sorry. I don't feel like taking those
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>> green trucks with this spec and that information. Sorry, it just doesn't fit for us." That's wild. But >> how did we get to this point? Walk us through the volatility since co >> on truck sales, truck orders, and compliance. >> I would almost add to that, too. You
24:25
know, one thing I caught up on a few minutes ago is you're saying all these regulations coming in 2027. Is that a factor everyone trying to get trucks in 2026? >> That's correct. >> Yeah. >> So, the way the regulations are coming down and because of all the everything
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that's having to go into the after treatment system to be compliant, we're EPA compliant for January for 2027 EPA compliant. Y >> that's what's going to bring the price of the tractors up. So if you need a truck, you better get it this year. So So I got [clears throat] three box
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trucks coming for you. >> Thank [laughter] you. Maybe more. We'll see. >> Maybe more. Yes. >> So you covered a lot of stuff just just a little bit ago. So the >> trying to figure out which to tackle first. >> Um let's start. So CO. So backing up to CO.
25:23
>> Yeah. Let's start with CO. >> Okay. So March March of 2020. I remember it was St. Patrick's Day and my GM comes in and says, "This is what's going on. Get your laptops. You're going home." We worked for home for a couple months, >> you know, it seems like. >> Yeah.
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>> Which is weird because then you would go out and see You couldn't go see customers because no one would let you in the door, >> right? Um but so that being said, that's going on then everybody's home and as we know people are buying stuff from Amazon from everywhere. >> Mhm.
26:00
>> So the transportation business starts booming. People are buying trucks. Guys are getting paid $16,000 to go from run freight or produce from California to Georgia. 16 grand. Today they're lucky if they get $2,500. Yeah, >> that's one reason. I mean, we're we have
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more trucks than we have supply or um >> Yeah, >> lack of demand. >> Lack of demand. Thank you. >> Um so again, trucks are going good. Anybody who has a CDL and 20% down is buying trucks. At one point, people are coming into our office and my my friendly competitor's office
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ordering so many trucks the market can't handle it. And in fact, the group that I work for, we returned $725,000 worth of deposits to people because we couldn't get them a truck because there was no >> How much? $725,000. So, >> are those deposits non-refundable if you
27:19
get the truck? >> So, they never got the truck. >> I know, but I'm saying in the inverse. >> That's That is That's a sticky gray question. >> I bet you can hold them to it, but if you do it, then you've got >> We the group I work for has an amendment.
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>> So, like the I mentioned about the transfer truck and another truck that I ordered for a gentleman. um you have a sales order and then you have an amendment stating you're going to take the truck. If you don't take the truck, then the only way you can get your deposit back if I'm I
27:51
can sell the truck and I'm sort of have taking liberties on what the state what it says. >> Yeah. Okay. But for the most part to me, but at the end of the day, as you mentioned while ago, the handshake >> Yeah. >> There's a lot of people we can still do handshakes with. Yeah,
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>> there's some you shake their hand and you still take their check because things happen, >> right? >> And um and you don't want to get stuck with >> 20 green or yellow or whatever color trucks that are that customer's application that what are you going to do with it?
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>> Okay, so 2020 you're returning deposits because you've taken so many orders and you can't deliver the trucks. >> That was that was correct for the whole industry. that was um freight liner, pack car. There just was not enough um parts to build these trucks. And it
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was what was really terrible was I had customers come into my office giving me checks and um we're picking the colors, we're ordering the truck, and then when it gets cancelled, they come to me and say, "Jason, you canceled my truck." I go, "I didn't cancel your truck." I go,
29:06
"You don't understand. If I don't sell you a truck, I don't make any money." >> Yeah. >> I had no There just wasn't enough parts to build your truck. There was no tires. There was no engines. And it just it wasn't just with Packar. It was the industry. >> 2021. >> Same story.
29:27
>> No, engines engines were everything was relatively available then. >> Yeah. Everything was going decent. Like I said, 2023 was good. Um, and then at one point there was an issue. >> It's similar to tire industry. I mean, we had you shut the world down, right?
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And then you turn the factories back on, nobody knows what to build. So 2020 we have small shortages, not huge. Um, and then the world ramped up big time and that's when you started seeing huge, huge supply issues. Demand go through the roof. People are exponentially
30:09
ordering more. Instead of ordering a thousand tires, they're ordering 3,000 tires. And so the whole system looks like, hey, we need 100,000 tires. And their demands only for 2,000. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, at one point, and I'm trying, and I'm probably have going to have my
30:27
dates wrong on this, but at some point we start looking at what emissions is going to hap, what emissions is going to do in California. So, some dealers ordered a glut of trucks in 2023 knowing that we weren't going to get carb compliant engines. >> Okay. in 2024. >> In 2024,
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correct? >> Yeah. So, they pump up their volumes in 2023. >> Well, the trouble is Yeah. We pump up the volumes in 2023. The troubling thing is like like in your business, >> you order I don't know, you order two containers of 11R 245 tires. Where are you going to put them? I go,
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well, somebody's going to use them. >> Yeah. Well, and that was the case, you end up ordering stuff that is application specific for one segment of your industry and maybe that industry is not taking as many as you want and you end up sitting on equipment for 18 months or better.
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>> So, did you guys sit on equipment in 2024? >> You didn't hear that from me. >> Okay. [laughter] So, 2024, [clears throat] you guys order for 2023, but you guys communicated to customers, hey, you have this opportunity to buy equipment before carp compliance issues. >> Correct.
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>> You sit on equipment in 2024. 2024 is tough. >> Correct. Yeah. 2024. Yeah. [clears throat] 2024 was tough and and last year was tough. >> Right. So, >> bracing for carp compliance that never really came through or you're saying got pushed to a federal level.
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>> Got pushed to a federal level and then backed out. So, and it was and that's where I get back to trying to have have a game plan. Um, there was a there was a gentleman him and his dad had a um uh business pulling out of the port of Oakland. >> Okay.
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>> Great people. The business been around for over 50 years. >> Yeah. um they were doing everything above board and making sure that they had their trucks were compliant. Laws change. Next thing you know, they have all this equipment, all this uh debt. [clears throat]
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Their competition who didn't go out and run run out and buy new equipment >> Yeah. >> undercut him and so now this company is out of business. That's that's that's to me I think speaking for others in the industry truck anybody who has got heavy equipment that's the huge concern
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working in these states that have high levels of compliance is that it doesn't actually go through >> is that hey you spend all this money to get compliant um and you're out of business because of exactly like you're saying that exact example I mean I I know dealers across
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the country that were looking at California carp compliance getting spread spread to multiple states and they're looking at spending $10 million on trucks because they're running older trucks that last longer, right? They've got some really quality trucks but last
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longer for heavy equipment. >> And hey, we're going to have to spend $10 million to replace this to be compliant with carb. They wouldn't be able to compete in today's world if they had bought all those trucks. >> Correct. >> Absolutely. >> And there's there's nobody taking
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responsibility for that. We can't. Nobody can go to carb or the feds and say, "Hey, you guys freaking hosed us." That's nuts. >> Yeah, it's a problem. And even even today, I mean, you know, you every [clears throat] day, every week, you seem like you read an article, they're
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going to take some of that death def is a big one now. Are they going to remove deaf? If they do it, how's that transition going to work, right? >> I don't know if they even know how. It's so deep now. Feel like deaths in everything. Deafs. We They used to be
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deaf in lawnmowers in California. Now you can't even have that, right? You have to have electric lawnmowers. >> Yeah, [laughter] it's crazy. I mean, but you you you look at this and and the compliance thing is a mess. Jason, I what is it four years ago you and I sat in a seminar with
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three 400 people talking about are we going to is are we going to transition to hydrogen? Is it electrical? And everyone's going, "Holy you know, how are we going to comply?" And you know, I I remember hearing a couple goodsized, you know, trucking companies
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go, "Hey, I'll just shut it down. I'm not dealing with this. I'll just shut it down. >> In fact, that that that um um conference you you spoke about, >> the one that I mentioned about the father and son out of business, he was up there. He was a guest speaker that
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day and he got up and talked about partnering with my company and how he was going to get through these tough times because we had grant writers, [clears throat] we had all this stuff and we were partnering with this customer and he was a he was a great
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spokesman for how to do things right. And like I said, it's unfortunate that he's out of business, but >> good guy finished last. But >> yeah, >> speaking to John, that was the thing was >> here it was um this about like you said this about three or four years ago four
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years ago roughly. >> We bring together about 200 customers. We have a very smart man there is a gentleman by the name of uh Sean Edgar who's with Clean Fleets. >> Y >> very intelligent man gets up tells us how how things are going to happen. Mhm.
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>> what you can do to get ahead of it. And there was no lies told. Everything was this is because we were basing it off of what laws were coming down. So as people ramp up for that. They try to, you know, hey, if I'm going to keep my business going, these are the things I have to do.
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And like you said, unfortunately some of it you just feel bad when somebody does the right thing and they end up losing their business. >> So how many customers did you have in 2021 that don't exist today? I mean you've tal you mentioned a few.
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>> I know I've got I have off the top of my head I can think of seven customers that are completely out of business now. And some of it some of it had to do with there was no heir to the throne um to take over the business. >> Yeah. Plenty of reasons. But the attrition point is
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>> but but at some point um I was at a CTA lunch last year and there was an economist there and the economist was showing the cost of operating a truck versus the profitability. >> Yeah. And it it just it just keeps getting thinner and thinner. >> I we're not 19 and 22 years old anymore
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doing this for the experience. It's all about the profit. You have to make a profit otherwise. I mean, we enjoy our jobs, you know, tread depth, gauge, selling trucks, whatever it is, meeting people, taking care of business. Um but we we all as I tell people I go all I
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want is this little bit of profit for this long period of time. >> Yeah. >> So and when you can't make a profit then you're going well you're bringing up a broader a broader point which is how challenging it is for small business in the United States. Now um a giant one of
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the largest fleets in the US posted a $9.8 million loss for quarter 4. Um well, even on a percentage basis, there's no small business in the United States that could absorb that kind of that kind of loss if you made it the percentage of their total revenue. Um
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they just wouldn't be able to make it that quarter. But those slim margins, it makes it much easier for Big Corp to manage quarter in quarter out during tough times or good times. Um is what it is. You know, I was talking to a a extremely successful a hauler in the
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Central Valley and [clears throat] um hey, what's your what's your outlook looking, you know, for 2026? And he goes, you know, I'm parking trucks. I'm parking a significant amount of trucks. I'm not going into this price battle with these guys. Let them take the take
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it down to the bottom. Weed out all the guys who bid on it. They'll be gone in five years and then I'll pick it back up. the prices on on Holland, whether it's grapes or tomatoes or onions, garlic, are so far down. I just don't understand how them guys could actually
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turn a profit. I mean, it's we we mentioned about what's going on with a certain demographic of people that are bringing Chinese tires in and somehow avoiding paying feet and selling these. >> Does that still happen? >> [laughter] >> I've heard it from five people. [snorts]
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It's not so >> I don't know. It's that that's a lot of conjecture. I mean, it it it pops up. >> But either way, getting back and I've watched you guys' podcast several times and it and it's, you know, near and dear to my near and dear to my heart of the
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application specific and providing a value to our customers for what we do. >> Right. >> Anybody can be the cheapest. >> I'm not here to be cheap. I'm here to and it's sort and again cliche. I'm here to save you money. I'm gonna partner with you and we're gonna we're gonna
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make a profit together. So when somebody when people bring in containers of tires and sell widgets with no warranty, no anything. They're not picking up your scrap tires. They're not anyway. You get what you pay for. So, I want to get into application um and
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tires, but let's finish with 2026, right? So, you have two the industry has two down years, right? Orders spike at the end of the year. Um it's spot rates are going up. We're as we're recording this, we're in the midst of a huge winter storm, >> right, on the East Coast. It's very,
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very nice out here in California. >> Yeah, man. Um, [clears throat] but uh with the outlook of 2027, you guys are probably going to take a bunch of orders this year. Yeah. >> Amen. Yeah, I'm doing it right now. I probably have I have over 12 folders on
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my desk and and I appreciate you having me here. >> Yeah. >> Three-hour drive, one way to get here. But yeah, I've got my laptop and I'm I've I have people that are uh not as nervous right now. So, yeah. uh this will be uh this will be a good year
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>> and do you think when we look at it so you're there's going to be national demand for trucks right >> I believe so yes >> right as people try and beat regulations maybe more so in California or western or carp compliant pressured states >> uh everything on 2027 it's all going to
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be the same >> I know but if I if I've held off on buying trucks because I don't know where I'm at I'm in a carp compliance state I think there's like seven of them now that are absorbing that carb regulations. I've held off on buying trucks. I'm not really sure what's going
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on. Would I buy more trucks in 2026? Because I've held off not knowing what's going to happen. Hey, now I know it's a federal standard. I can buy my truck now. >> Correct. I believe they would buy trucks. [clears throat] But getting back to John's point of
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I'm only going to buy trucks if I can make a profit because you can go to Richie Brothers or um Taylor Martin, any of the auction sites right now. >> Trucks are going cheap. >> Um >> how cheap? >> Sleeper trucks 56 grand, some less depending on mileage. But since see some
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of the mileage on on the trucks depending on what you get whether it's a Freight Lin or a Peterbuilt. Um but a lot of those some of them are repoed. >> Mhm. >> Um but you typically at the auctions you're not seeing the last auction last report I got off one of the auction
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sites um trucks were well over 300,000 miles. Most guys, hey I want a used truck under 250. typically not going to get it, >> right? >> Uh but there are bargain buys, if you will, >> fresh repos, >> rel relatively. >> Yeah. >> Um but a friend of mine and one of our
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mutual customers just went to Texas and bought three used Western Stars to pull uh pull for his dirt business >> because he the deal was just too good. >> Yeah. So, um, anyway, but to get back to your question about people buying trucks, yes, people are going to buy trucks this year.
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[clears throat] >> Um, because there's I think there's a little more some of the questions have been answered and we don't see the goalpost moving. >> Yep. >> Um, and because that's always a thing when we got get back to the forecasting. So, I'm not an economist. >> Oh, yes.
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>> Crystal ball, >> but let's go. [laughter] When Joe said, "Hey, I need to I need to ask you some questions." And I'm going, >> "I will find you the answer." >> Yeah. We want to know what the freight market looks like in 2026. We know you're going to sell a bunch of trucks.
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We're happy for you. >> Um but uh we want to know where it's going to go. >> Optimism. Optimistic. I mean, you don't you're not in our business or you're especially you're not as um a successful salesman unless you're optimistic. >> Yeah. >> Um you have to get out and see what's
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going on. Um talk to the customers and [clears throat] >> get out of your comfort zone because you you if I told you I mean I'd like to sit here again with you in November maybe or in a year. >> Yeah. and and we can go over uh whatever ca just came out of our mouths and go
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back and says, "Hey, I was wrong." Or, "Oh, we were >> we were right. >> We were right." Yeah. So, >> I'm cautiously optimistic. I I think you see a bump. I follow freight waves. Um I know they get a lot of criticism for their data, but it I don't [snorts]
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think it's going to be a huge boom, but I think you're going to see some profitability back. I mean, think about all the supply that's been ripped out of the market. um there's going to be less trucks. Whether people are buying more, that's a whole different story. But with interest
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rates down, even if it's 3 4% more profitability for transport companies or 3 4% more trucks moving on the road, that's still huge for everybody. >> Anything's going to be better than what we have had, >> right? Um, but I think it's like anything educating
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the customer to let them know especially and not not to pull the chicken little that the sky's falling and you have to buy a truck this year. >> Mhm. All we can do is educate them, say, "This is what's going down. This is where it's going to be." And you you
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talk about freight waves and and the other stuff that we see and um some of the stuff coming out of all our all of our mouths, we got it off the internet andor personal experience. Um, but to really just inform the customers about what's going on to try to make sure whether it's your
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company or our group that we're here to help. >> So, electrification and hydrogen, are we dead on that? Is that over with? No. >> I think I think just like the tires, I think it's application specific. Um there's going to be a place for all of it. Um but um I can't tell you where
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that is. Obviously um on the electric side, the distance, the logistics of the distance needs to get more. >> Y >> um because I I demoed an electric three axle dayc cab to a customer. Uh he's pulling a tank. Um the range on the tractor that I demoed for him was 150 miles.
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>> He made [laughter] >> his his uh turnaround load was 19 roughly. >> Mhm. I got a call sun one Sunday morning at 9:00 and the driver told me in a distraught voice, "I don't think I'm going to make it." So, I had to drive into Madera and pick him up when he had
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he had 8% charge left on the truck. >> Yeah. >> But he was concerned about making it in another 12 miles. So, >> why'd he stop? >> It was He didn't think he he didn't think he was going to make it. Does it blow up if it runs out? >> No, it just But you run out. You know
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when your phone when your battery starts flashing. Doesn't happen to me. But when your battery's dead on your phone, you're going, "Oh, I've got >> 7% left." >> Yeah. You're not scrolling TikTok. You're saving your phone for emergency purposes. But I don't get it. That's
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you're I don't get it. You got 8% left. You got 12 miles. >> He should have been able to make it. >> Did you drive it? >> I did not drive that truck. I actually had that truck towed. I went I I we took it to a friend of mine's shop and left it Sunday afternoon and then I sent uh I
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sent a tow truck to pick it up. So >> Oh, why don't you drive it? You have a license. >> Sure. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, so Jason, the the electric we know we know the the downside is is distance. >> Correct. hydrogen. We know one one problem is the infrastructure is not
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there to support it. What what's another downside of hydrogen right now? >> Is it fuel mileage? >> I don't know that I could answer that. I I don't I don't know enough on that to answer the question. I will tell you on the CNG um on CNG was looking pretty good. I can
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tell you that mileage on CG is less than diesel. Um there again >> less is more efficient or less efficient. >> Less efficient. >> Less efficient. >> So say if you can get and again you can send me comments if I'm incorrect on this. >> We like comments. >> Comments are good.
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>> Uh the on the CG side with the um with the tanks involved and whatnot. Um, and again I could be mistaken on this was same application, two different trucks. One was CNG, one was diesel. The CNG was having to um refill twice on his route as opposed to the diesel truck. Um and
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the way uh the company we use with CNG, so our tanks uh the CG tanks are what we call uh 150 DGE, which is 150 diesel gallons equivalent. That's how much >> CNG is on in those tanks. >> Okay. Um, on the hydrogen, I know some people that are heavily involved in it and I think
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they're going to make it work. they can see um you know like back in the day when we had before we had VHS we had beta and there's people going oh we gota you know I think >> um the people that I know that are doing hydrogen um I think that is going to be the way
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but like you said the same thing with the infrastructure um you know with the with the truck that um was short of making it back to the shop that one Sunday morning had a Loves or another location had a charging station. >> Mhm. >> I could have limped it over charged. But we're
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>> How fast is a charge on that truck? >> Not fast enough. >> Yeah, but hour. >> No, like eight plus. >> Oh, >> that's a problem. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> See, and that's the whole that is the whole thing. It has I mean it has to make it I mean I guess the first
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standard to me would have to make a full driving shift. They're enforcing these regulations pretty heavily on the how much time a driver can be driving. Um so it's got to make it that amount of hours, right? And then they're parked and they charge.
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>> There was uh I'll have to share it with you. There was an um there was a website or there was there was another um video done and there was a company that had had some electric trucks in their in their fleet and it baffled me. One of the drivers made a comment about
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he runs his route, say from here from point A to point B, turns around and comes back with the load, but he has to unhook the trailer and grab another truck. It was electric truck. >> Mhm. >> He has to put another power unit under it because the first power unit is said out of
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>> juice or the batteries are too low to make it >> to the in deal. and he he said it no so nonchalantly like it was it was just part of doing business. I'm going it's unacceptable, you know, but I think I think technology will get there. I mean, look where we're sitting right now. I go
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we're looking at all these cameras. 10 years ago, we wouldn't be [clears throat] >> using this, you know. Yeah. It's just uh I and again I think it's going to get there and uh every form of uh uh energy be it diesel, electric, hydrogen, widgets, whatever it is, it'll it'll
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[clears throat] get there eventually. >> So five years from now, you're still in the truck business. >> Yeah. >> Okay. You selling more electric trucks or hydrogen trucks? >> I think I think I'm selling more electric trucks. It seems like it's going that way. >> Yeah.
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>> Especially in the bus market. >> Yeah. >> But there again, we come back to application because the troubling thing is it's the weight of the batteries. There's a company right now that has a truck capable of doing over 200 uh 200 miles. >> Yeah.
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>> I think the front axle is 20,000 pounds. Don't quote me on that. But the thing is, it's the weight. It's like the the one I told you about where the where the um guy was coming back pulling a tank. The front end on that I think was a 132. It had um uh the
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batteries on it were equivalent to go again 150 miles, >> right? >> In order to get that longer distance, larger batteries, larger larger batteries, more weight, more weight, heavier suspension. So until things get smaller, more efficient, >> the the batteries are going to get
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better. Like there's there's so much investment in batteries. But I look at hydrogen and the two things come to mind to me. The power ratio, right? My understanding is that the power ratio of what hydrogen hydrogen can generate energy per gallon is two and a half times that of diesel.
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>> So it can absolutely crush. It's liquid, right? So you're you're able to fill it the standard way. you're able to change current diesel gas stations or add on underground hydrogen tanks. Um, so that the infrastructure for trucking in general stays the same, right? [snorts] It can
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fill at the same speed. It can give enough energy out. You have to change those engines and you have to put in the tanks. But if you've got like a Air Liquid has a huge huge operation in Vegas, >> a huge plant, a billion-dollar plant that was designed to sub to supply the
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West Coast, mainly California. If you have that, then you're going somewhere. >> Um, so that's always been something that's on top of my mind, but you have to get it nationally. And if diesel fuel, like right now, um, you know, I think we just took over Venezuela is the is the news. Um,
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[clears throat] nobody knows exactly what happened there, but yeah, if diesel [laughter] if diesel plummets I like the story, by the way. >> Um, if diesel plummets down to $2 a gallon, then who's incentivized to buy a $300,000 electric or hydrogen truck with
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no infrastructure and uh $5 hydrogen >> with a bunch of question marks. Yeah, >> but it'd be cool if you could get us a hydrogen hand truck for uh uh for mining tire service. We'd love that. >> I'll work on it. >> Thank you. >> It's probably going to be more than 500 grand.
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>> Well, let's talk about the price. [laughter] Plenty of time. >> Uh we talked about that. You had mentioned something about you wanted to mention um applications or tire applications. Yeah, that's a good one. Um, tires. How did tires get specked from the factory? >> So,
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let's one thing. Let's back up. Okay. on your on your application. And this is things that um having come from [clears throat] that side, having come from uh working on the dealer side or working on the truck side before I got into the tire side. We just
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look at tires like they were black and round and made most of them held air. >> They all do those things. >> It was other than bands and pneumatics on a forklift. But nonetheless, >> it was it was a part. We didn't understand um what it what it was there to do. I
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mean, you had an idea. But [clears throat] where I'm getting at is when I'm building a truck or when I got into this this side of the business, we concentrate so much on the engine, the horsepower, the torque, the transmission, the placement of the fifth
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wheel, the seat. I mean, the color, everything does, but then when it comes down to the tires, you just click on it. One, either because it's the least expensive or you click on it and you don't know. Um, I've put on several PowerPoint presentations to dealers.
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If you don't know, ask me. Ask somebody. Ask the customer you're building the truck for. Or if it's a stock unit, make sure that if it is a sleeper truck that you have a long haul steer tire on the front, not a regional general. Um, anyway, just pick pick the right tire.
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And also make sure when you do uh pick the right tire that it Um, it's the right load carrying capacity for the suspension you have on it. >> I would think that portion the factory would standardize. Can you actually get a underrated tire for >> Yes. >> Oh, >> really?
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>> Oh, it's it's wild. >> How that that seems like a huge liability. >> Well, you >> for you, for the dealership, and >> putting a 14 ply a 14 ply tire on on a place where it needed to be a 16 ply. >> Yeah. What's that? A 10 What's the front end difference? a 10K versus a 125 or
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something. >> Well, you would have say a 132 versus like a 12 or a 125. >> Yep. >> Yeah. So, but what you get is when you put say if you have a 10,000lb front end, which would carry a 315 ADR 225, so a garbage truck. >> Yep. >> Or um yeah, a garbage truck. You could
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still have that 10,000lb front end, but if you don't have those 315s on it to carry that 10,000 pounds, >> that 20,000, you have an 11R 22514 ply. When you get your build sheet, it derates that. No matter what you had, it comes back to the weakest link. The
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tires were the weakest part of that build. And so you said, "I had a 20,000lb front end." I go, "Yeah, but your steer tires only carry 14 or 12 123." [clears throat] So, but yeah. >> In fact, I was at a dealership the other day. >> Tire dealership or truck dealership?
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>> I'm sorry. I was at a truck dealership the other day. >> Happened to walk by a truck. >> The chassis had a 2958R225 tire on it. >> Yeah. >> 295. And in fact, I looked at it. It was a Michelin. It said coach right on the side of it. My question to the
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salesman who was on duty was there could have been other tires that should have been in that place anyway. >> You mean like a common one? >> Exactly. [laughter] Right. And that's the bad thing is they don't know. And that's the thing with some of
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our society, even me at times. You don't know what you don't know. >> Yeah. >> Just ask. There's no dumb questions, you know, trying to explain somebody that um the difference between an open and a closed shoulder tire. At the end of the day, talk to the customers or talk to uh
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just get knowledge before you just arbitrarily pick a tire and throw it throw it on a $200,000 truck. >> Yeah. Well, you're a former tire guy, so you can help with that with your customers. or it's, you know, go to a tire guy and get some information before
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you spec those expensive trucks, right? >> Correct. >> Yeah. Okay. What else is in your crystal ball? >> So, I was looking looking at your past podcasts. >> Yeah. >> I thought it was what interesting one time and I don't recall what it was, but we were talking about air pressure.
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>> Yeah. how important air pressure is to Oh, and you had brought up how much fuel economy you you lose due to from 10 to 20 pounds of air pressure being um missing from said tires. >> Not not optimal. >> Not optimal tire pressure. Yep. >> So, it reminded me of a story of a of a
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customer I had over the road sleeper reefers. On the back of his reefer, there was a, for lack of a better term, um, a ducttail or a fairing that came off of the back >> to help with the drag. >> Okay. On the back of this thing, it says, "Save 3% on fuel by utilizing this
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system that was on the back of this reefer." >> Yep. >> Me being me, I went and got a legal pad out of my truck and a calibrated air gauge and I went around and I hit all 18 tires. Three of those tires were under 70 pounds. So, I walked in to the owner and
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I said, "Paul, I don't want to be an ass, but if you aired up these three tires, you would probably save more than 3%." You know, [laughter] >> that's a great story, >> but >> we all want the quick fix. We want to buy it and be done with it. >> And that's the troubling thing. and and
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looking at some of your your your podcasts and that's the thing is there are so many customers out there that they look at the invoice price on the bottom. It's understandable, but at the end of the day, what are you getting out of us? The service that you're getting out of us
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and what we bring to the table is worth something. it. But that's the onus of that is on the people in this room, right? If you're going to sell somebody a premium truck or premium tire, for them to get the value, which should result in a healthier bottom line for them,
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we need to show them the path, right? We we're not selling say, "Hey, we get a 250,000 mile drive tire. It's great." No. If you don't maintain it, you're not going to get that. Right. >> Correct. And so you've you've got to work on that high level of maintenance,
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especially if you're buying any premium product. You got to take care of it. >> But the onus of that is on us. >> I think it's just on I don't know. It's being good at what we do, good at our craft, and getting people to understand what we do and that we're just not not
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here to sell you a commodity. And again, no matter the cost of it, whether it's a Michelin or a dog pound or whatever it is, you still have to maintain it. >> Yeah. >> You know, you do. >> I love that story though. >> That's a good story. >> That's great.
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>> You know, one thing, and you guys sort of brought this up one time, and I should have had more notes on it, but there are because you guys mentioned about TPS, tire pressure monitoring systems. >> Yep. Um, they're out there. They need to get better. >> Mhm.
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>> But it blows me away in the vehicles that all three of us pulled up and we'll tell you, you know, you're at 67 pounds on the on the right front and 68 pounds on the on the left front. The technology is there. And I don't know why on our side or on the truck side. Um,
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it's not, one would say it's not standard equipment to be able to >> I would love the answer to that. I think we have to go into the factory to find out, but if it's if it's available if it's available in a minivan and it's available in a Porsche that can go 180 m an hour, >> correct?
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>> It can be available in a truck. Um, I guess the the impact there is probably where I'd start is we looked at what we can influence for a trucking fleet. As an example, tire spend is usually less than 5% of revenue. Okay? Um, it could be around two to 3%.
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Now, if we maintain those tires, we can impact that dramatically. 20 30% savings on that 2 to 3% less than five. Um so that can turn out to be a big number but it's not nearly as big as say fuel is the focus on the whole right as hey can I get a cheaper fuel vendor or can I
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save money on fuel by buying from somebody else or a different credit card system or whatever. It's a bigger number but a smaller difference. And I think that that that portion on tires, well, it's just we're a smaller percentage of cost. That's all. >> But you
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one thing you covered was how it affects it affects [clears throat] so many other things. >> It does. Yes. When I say that savings, that 20 to 30%, that's that can be just on the the performance of the tire, right? And then yes, we can save upwards of 2% on fuel downtime, etc.
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So, I didn't go after the fuel side, but one of my Conquest customers many years ago, um, vocational guy, uh, did walking floors, moving like soil amendments, jip, that kind of deal. >> Yep. >> I went into his fleet. I didn't have his account. It took me two weekends walking
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his fleet make, you know, looking at how uh in disrepair or disorganized it was. >> Yeah. >> We get done and I made my proposal on the third third Saturday and I said, I see room for drastic improvement. I go, I guarantee you I'll save you $30,000 this year, but it's not going to
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be by the bottom line of the invoice. I go, it's the things that I do as far as crossing drive axles, running my steers down, running my drives down, moving them back to the trailer, retreading them. There was more to it. And I did. I saved him the money, and he used some of
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that money to buy his wife butt neck wheels to go on her on his wife's Tahoe. Don't talk about his spend where he spent it. I don't really care. I'm just don't that's not yours to share. >> I'm cool. He's fine. But that my thing was some people they don't know. And
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sometimes unless you unless you're truly made or unless you do have a good uh reputation and character to say the guy's solid, you know, but anybody can come in and says I'm going to save you money. And they go show me. Well, let's do some >> Go ahead.
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>> No, that's what I'm saying. Let's do that. Yeah. Right. That's that's what fleets need from us is they need the expertise uh to come in and help save them money or make more money or not go out of go out of business because of X, Y, and Z. >> Yeah.
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>> All right. Well, this was fun. I loved it, man. Thank you, Jason. >> It was a blast. >> All right. We're wrapping it up. Thank you, guys. >> I'm not an economist. >> [laughter] >> Around the beat podcast, tire talk for trucking, mining, agriculture,
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and more. Your home for fleet solutions. [music] Aiming to inform, pioneer, and entertain the tire world in connected industries. Sponsored by East [music] Bay Tire. Keeping essential industries moving forward
