The Truth About VF Tires: What Dealers Won’t Tell You!
In this episode of Around the Bead, James Crouch, North America Product Specialist/Manager for Alliance Tires, discusses tire technology in agriculture, including VF tires, soil compaction, CTIS systems, and field performance. He explains how tire pressure, tread patterns, and advanced inflation systems affect yield, fuel efficiency, and tractor performance. The conversation also covers trends in tire adoption, differences between North America and Europe, and practical advice for farmers and dealers on optimizing equipment.
🔧 Topics Covered:
VF (Very High Flexion) tires: benefits and applications
Soil compaction and yield correlation
Differences between North American and European farming equipment adoption
Fuel efficiency and how tire choice impacts it
Tread patterns: multi-purpose vs. long bar vs. specialty designs
CTIS (Central Tire Inflation System) and aftermarket solutions
Field trials and testing methods
Tracks vs. tires: evolution in farming equipment
Value vs. ultra-premium tire segments
Practical tips for weighing tractors and setting proper tire pressure
Show Notes:
Episode: LSW vs Tracks: The Tire Technology Changing Agriculture
Host: Joseph, James Crouch
Runtime: 61 minutes
Summary: James Crouch, an agricultural tire expert, to dig into how VF technology, tire pressure systems, and modern tire design are transforming today’s farms. From soil compaction and fuel savings to the role of CTIS (Central Tire Inflation Systems), James explains how smarter tire management delivers more traction, more yield, and less downtime. The crew also covers VF vs IF tires, how tire design impacts equipment performance, and what the future of ag tire innovation means for farmers and fleets alike. If you care about farming efficiency, tire technology, or fleet performance, this episode is packed with insights from the field that will keep your operation moving forward. Subscribe to Around the Bead for more conversations on tire tech, fleet solutions, and industry
What You'll Learn:
How VF tires can carry more weight at lower pressure and reduce soil compaction
Why tire pressure is critical for yield, fuel efficiency, and tire life
How tread patterns affect traction, roadability, and crop performance
How CTIS systems optimize tire performance and their adoption in North America
Key differences in tire technology adoption between Europe and North America
How field testing validates tire performance vs. lab simulations
Value considerations when choosing premium vs. mid-tier tires
Links:
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Transcript:
00:00:01
Just like looking at different fields and trying to figure out what compaction does to a specific crop in a specific season, tires do so many different things in one year. It's really hard to draw a strict comparison of this farmer to this farm and say, "Well, this far farmer A got 6,000 hours on this set of tires. Farmer B will also when farmer B's operation doesn't mirror farmer A's, right?" So, it's it's so difficult. Like, I don't want to be the guy to stand up there shooting a load of bull
00:00:23
to somebody with let's say they rode 50% of the time, their neighbor only roses 10% of the time. It's going to be dramatically different. Good day. Around the bead is back and today we are finishing off our final segment, three parts of the next generation in A. Today I am joined by James Crouch, North America's a product specialist. >> Manager. >> Manager. Thank you. For Alliance, which is part of the Yokohama Group. Is that right? >> That's right. Yep. Alliance, Galaxy, and
00:01:07
Primex are all under our portfolio. >> Now, Alliance, I remember, used to be a relatively small A company, but today under the big umbrella, there's much more to that story. Is that right? >> Quite a bit. Yeah. So we're we're part of the Yokohama offhighway Tire Group which is part of the Yokohama Rubber Company is the big mothership and you know not 10 years ago it was just ATG. We were just ATG. It was Alliance Galaxy Primex called the Alliance Tire Group, right? >> Uh then recently then we were acquired
00:01:36
by Yokohama. After that we also acquired TWWS which is Trellorg wheel systems. So that's Trellorg Mas in that group. Then we recently closed even on Goodyear otr business. So the offhighway group for under our little portfolio has really gotten big. >> Huge. Yes. Huge. One of the biggest out there now. >> It is. It is. We're probably number three or number four. Uh if you look at depending on dollars or tons. >> And in the a space I mean Alliance isn't a small player on its standalone, right?
00:02:03
It's it's it's substantial. Number two, number three. >> Probably number Yeah, number three. Probably number four, somewhere like that. >> James, how long have you been with Alliance? >> Uh so I've been with Alliance for about seven years now. >> Uhhuh. But you grew up in a >> I did. So, I grew up in the southern part of South Carolina, just east of Augusta, Georgia. Uh, on a small what now nowadays would be called a hobby farm almost. We were sub 1000 acres. We
00:02:26
just did cattle. Uh, grew up in a John Deere dealership. Drew grew up turning wrenches. It's always just kind of been part of what I part of what I love. So, that's where I came straight out of college. Two weeks after start or two weeks after I graduated college, I jumped right into a tires and been here pretty much ever since. >> And you got a brother in a tires too, right? >> I do. So tires run deep in the family. So I've got a brother that's still in a tires. Um and just tires in general. My
00:02:50
brother brother-in-law is in tires now. My wife was in tires when we met. >> Why is that? Why do we do that? Why do we all get in and just not leave? >> I don't know. I tried to get out one time. I left for about three years. [laughter] Uh worked for Bobcat Company. It was a great experience and came boomeranged right back into a tires. Well, I I've been really excited to have you on because whether you know it or not, your name is a big deal in Agnow. Um there's very few specialists out there who know
00:03:16
the ins and outs and a lot of the community is looking towards you for answers. So today I want to quiz you a little bit on VF tires and where you see that going in the marketplace. Can you tell our audience what a VFR really is? [clears throat] >> Sure. So VF tires stands for very high flexion. Uh, so basically a VF tire can do 40% more work than a standard radial tire. If you want to look at like an evolutionary standpoint, you got bias tires, you have radial tires, and then you have IF, which was a 20% variable,
00:03:46
and then you got VF, which is 40%. >> So pretty much everything's going VF now if you can. Uh, everybody's kind of skipping if we evolved away from that as well over the past five, six years. >> Uh, and you can look at it two different ways. So either the tire can carry 40% more weight at the exact same pressure as a standard radial tire or you could carry the same load at 40% less air pressure than a standard radial tire. So it really has two different utilities. You can either have a super high load
00:04:14
carrying capacity or you can have that really low ground compaction or a combination of both. >> So we talk about ground compaction all the time in the tire world, but what what does that functionally mean for a farmer? I mean can we correlate that to yields? I mean, what what are we really gaining from it? >> It's tough. So, it's it it [clears throat] soil health is the big buzz word in agriculture and has been for a while, right? Soil health. >> Soil health that that's the overarching
00:04:37
umbrella of what everybody's trying to do. So, when you really look at whether it's tires, equipment, uh equipment less less so, but tires, uh seed, fertilizer, anything. We're trying to take better care of the ground because the ground is the the the mechanism for generating revenue for a farmer, right? So, we want to keep it we we keep this we want to keep the soil as close to its natural state as possible. >> When you talk about what we can do or what we know how it translates to an
00:05:03
actual farmer and yield and things like that, it gets really tricky because there there are brands out there, there's studies out there that show anywhere between a 1% to a 75% increase in yield depending on tire pressure. But especially in this area or in the Midwest, you know that soil types change from one corner of a field to another and they react differently to compaction. Uh different crops take different things, different rain patterns and there there's so many variables there. It's really hard to
00:05:29
nail it down. >> So that's like my biggest critique in a as somebody who I feel like have spent a large part of my life in it is it still feels like hunting camp. Yeah. >> Right. Like it's there's [clears throat] not data there. It's oh the 270 is really flat shooting. Mhm. >> Um if you're if you're a hunter. >> Um [clears throat] and so, hey, we're going to rely on that for x amount of time, but >> how much does VF improve yields? What does that really mean for soil
00:05:55
compaction? Um same thing on like the tracks and LSW side, which we'll get into. >> Um but, uh there's very little data out there on how long tires run. I mean, they're going seven, eight, heck, Alliance's warranty is 10 years. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Right. >> Oh, yeah. Um, I've never warrantied a tire that was 9 years old, but evidently I'm going to if something goes wrong now. >> Great. >> Um, but [clears throat] I guess is it is it do you see it headed that way where
00:06:22
we're actually pulling data how many hours these these tires are getting or how a VF affects soil compaction or yields? >> We are. So, we're more [clears throat] prone to looking at different yield increases with tires than we are looking at like tire life because just like looking at different fields and trying to figure out what compaction does to a specific crop in a specific season. Tires do so many different things in one year. It's really hard to draw a strict comparison of this farmer
00:06:48
to this farmer and say, "Well, this farmer A got 6,000 hours on this set of tires. Farmer B will also when farmer B's operation doesn't mirror farmer A's." Right. Right. So, it's it's so difficult. Like, I don't want to be the guy to stand up there shooting a load of bull to somebody with let's say they rode 50% of the time, their neighbor only rose 10% of the time. It's going to be dramatically different. With yield though, th that's I will say that the
00:07:11
only thing we know for certain when we start talking about yield and low pressure tires and things like that is that low pressure tires increase yield. How much? I'm not going to sit here and tell you 1 to 50, but it increases yield. >> So, let me ask you this. you're you're in kind of more of the heartland. You're out of Houston. You're you're dealing with wheat, soybeans, corn as you go farther up north. [clears throat] >> What's the yield difference? Like what's
00:07:37
the delta between one farmer on one side who's got a bad yield and another farmer on the other side of the road that's got a great yield. >> It could vary 20 to 50%. >> Okay. That's substantial. >> Yeah, it could it could. >> That's not a small That's not a small amount. >> No. And it depends on when they got in the field. Uh I mean like when you get in the field it's a huge make or break if you start like a lot of the work I do is in the Midwest of course just because
00:08:00
of you know agriculture corn beans corn beans and wheat >> and I mean a guy in Iowa if with a 10day break a 10day delay getting into the field can really make a difference on yield like a huge huge amount. >> So that's why field access is so critically important. >> Huh. Okay. So if if VF is making a huge impact are are we seeing OEMs pick that up? up. I mean, is John Deere case is that becoming standard or why isn't it standard across the board now? You think >> they're getting there? So, like look at
00:08:31
Europe. So, Europe is is is ahead of us in agriculture in a lot of ways because they've been forced to be, >> right? And it's just a different machine. They're they're stuck to 3.5 meters wide on the road. They have to be a lot narrower. If we need more capacity in the past, we just put bigger tires on it, wider tires on it, whatever. They don't have that luxury. >> So, you can look at it two different ways. Europe has adopted if VF technology long before we did simply
00:08:54
because their machines are the same machines that we have. So they have a 45,000lb frontwheel 40,000lb frontwheel assist and instead of being on eight tires, it's on four. So the pressure is either super super high and they're very compaction conscious there as well because they're managing smaller fields and they run right up to the headland. >> Yeah. >> So they want to get that pressure lower whereas here the conversation was a little bit different. If you look, oh, let's see, it was probably 2010 or 11,
00:09:20
the first VF tire really came into the market as a specific North American product, and that was on Rogators because they needed the capacity. What's a rogator? >> Uh, a sprayers, high clearance sprayers, self-propelled sprayers. >> So, they needed the capacity. So, they were having to carry 11,000 lbs per corner on that machine, and the only option that they had was to go with a tire that required like 73 PSI, and it would beat the fillins out of the operator. It was horrible. Mh.
00:09:44
>> So then they came to a VF tire, dropped that pressure down to about 48 54 and the ride quality changed and everything. So the North Americans really adopted VF from the OE side. They adopted VF for capacity before compaction. In Europe, it was kind of the other way. >> Interesting. You see, I always thought it was fuel. I always thought fuela became a part because Europe was twice as expensive as North America for many, many decades. >> That's a big one as well. That is
00:10:11
critical in Europe is fuel for sure. So, we did a fuel study, we'll talk about it later, but I don't think people understand how much fuel a tractor actually uses. >> Let's talk about it now because we we look at it on trucking side. [clears throat] Uh the truck, the the driver, tires, fuel, those are the four major components. Um and fuel and tires are way up there. Um from an A standpoint, I mean, how much is fuel factoring into overall budget and how much are tires impacting it? tires can impact it quite
00:10:42
a bit and there's a couple different ways to look at it. Um I would assume that probably 70 75% of a tires out there are over inflated at at least that much on a big front wheel assist people normally put max pressure in them 35 PSI. I >> I think it's more than that. I mean I think it's like 90%. I mean I I would have to quiz if we quiz tire technicians right what they're going to do out there in the field they're going to hit whatever's on the sidewall. Yeah. >> Yeah. And so so there's a couple
00:11:09
different ways you can increase your your fuel efficiency with the tire. You can run the right pressure even if you have a standard radial. Then when you look at VF tires and when you're in the field and you're reducing that slip, it can dramatically increase your fuel economy there as well. >> Europe's much much more conscious of fuel economy than we are, especially in agriculture. Like it's a decision-making factor for someone in Europe to say to go to them and say, "Hey, you're going
00:11:30
to get 15 20% better fuel economy using this tire versus this tire. Here's your ROI." You could just put pencil to paper selling and show them hey this is black and white this is what it is. >> Wow. >> Here it's very difficult to have that conversation with an end user and say we can increase your fuel economy by 10%. If you spend 6% 10% whatever more on the tires to get VF versus standard or whatever. It's very hard to make them get over that hump. >> Why do you think that is?
00:11:56
>> Uh fuel's cheaper. Like off-road diesel or like agriculture use diesel is still very inexpensive here compared to what it is around the world. Red diesel is very inexpensive compared to what it is somewhere like Europe. >> It's a dollar $2 cheaper. >> No, it's more it's probably Yeah, at least every bit of that. Probably more than that. But I mean, if you think about it, every year or every model year, the tractors that come out are bigger and they're using more fuel. I
00:12:19
mean, look at the big like a big 9RX now. Those things burn like 30 gallons of fuel an hour when they're under a load. Like, it is a lot of fuel and people still buy them. And we hear when we're having conversations at trade shows with farmers and I'll ask them like, "Hey, you know, where do you are you really conscious about your fuel economy?" They're like, "Ah, it's kind of just a it's just an expense that they just kind of it's just an expense, right? It's not one that they're really
00:12:41
going to make a purchase decision off of yet." >> I used to make that argument for the Firestone 23 degree that it it generated a lot of traction and that's why guys liked it. Um, but [clears throat] it didn't necessarily rode well and it used a ton of fuel in order to generate that traction. But when fuel I mean there was red diesel was a dollar for a long time. >> Oh yeah. >> Um that it didn't really matter with that tire. But now you're starting to see tires all come with 45 degree really
00:13:08
be meant for roading more fuel efficient whether the farmers want it or not. >> And I talking about tread design. I mean, the 23°ree tread bar makes a lot of sense if you're off-road all the time and you're not on the road and you're just looking at flat ground farming. >> Mhm. >> I mean, think about it. The perfect tread design for forward traction in an off-road scenario is a zero degree bar like a tank track, right? Just straight hor or straight perpendicular to your
00:13:33
method of movement, right? Or to your motion. >> But a 45 or or I'm sorry, the perfect tread design for lateral stability is zero degree the other way. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, the 45 is that happy medium between the two that still gives you the good roadability, good forward traction, and good lateral traction at the same time. >> But the the 23, again, in an off-road situation, if you're purely off-road, the tires work great. I mean, they've had they've had that pattern out for a
00:13:56
very long time for a reason, and there's people that like it for a reason. But if you're roing, whole conversation changes. >> So, what we're on tread patterns. What about multi-purpose tread? At at what point do you feel like you I guess I'm going to do this in reverse. At what point do you have to go to a standard bar lug? A standard 45 degree short bar, long bar, long bar, long bar. At what point do you have to go to that? >> This is a really interesting that's a
00:14:22
really interesting topic because I feel like the the the the >> You see where I'm going with this? I'm doing it in reverse as opposed to say, well, when do you use a multi-purpose? If multi-purpose was the standard, when would you say, you know what, I need more traction. I got too much horsepower on the ground. I have to go to a long bar long bar 45 degree. >> So the way I like to explain this one is like on the the farm I grew up on the biggest tractor we had which I think
00:14:49
which I thought was the biggest thing on the planet at the time was a John Deere 5020. >> Okay. >> 138 and 12 horsepower. I thought it was enormous. The rear tire size was an 18438 which is a now front tire size. Yeah. >> On some of the fent tractors. Right. >> That tire that tractor never left the farm. I mean it never was on asphalt. It was either on red clay dirt road or in the field. tractors today do something dramatically different, right? I mean, I don't know how it is in California, but in the
00:15:15
Midwest, it is very rare for two farms to touch each other where they don't have to get out on the road and travel between one farm to another. They have to road these farm. They have to road a lot and nobody trailers anything, right? Or for the most part, nobody trailers anything. >> The tractor today and the tractor in 1973 that I grew up on, the tires look the same. It doesn't make any sense because the application's completely different. If you're out on the road, you don't need a long bar long bar. It
00:15:41
just doesn't build a chevron pattern or whatever you want to call it, a traditional looking tractor tire. It's really one of the last tread patterns that hasn't changed over time and it doesn't make any sense because the application dramatically has. So, you ask if everything >> That's an interesting way you painted that. I don't think I've ever heard it that way. >> Yeah. So, I mean, if you ask like if everything was multi-purpose, if everything was a special tread design or
00:16:02
whatever, when would you need a long bar long bar? I don't know if you ever would find that point. sprayers are a perfect example. So, we have a tread design called the 363. It's a it's a knobby pattern. It's built for roing. That's why we came out with the tire. I have the the the the first misconception when we show somebody the tire. We're at a trade show. We're like, "Hey, you need a tire for your sprayer. Here it is." I always I always have two. I always have
00:16:24
the 363 there to show them. I always have a 354, which is a traditional 45 degree bar because that's what people want. >> Yeah. >> And I say, "Here's a 363. It's this weird looking tire. We built it for sprayers. custom made for applications where you're on the road a lot and all this stuff. They look at it and they go, "Ah, I don't know if that's going to have enough traction." Okay, well, how much traction do you really need on a sprayer? And have you ever really gotten
00:16:46
to a situation when number one, you should have probably skipped a day and let it dry out a little bit when you actually sank a sprayer when you really needed that traction? I have never heard anybody come back to me that has purchased 363s, come back to me and said, "I wish I never would have bought them because they don't have the traction I need." Once people try it, they realize that they don't need that much traction with a sprayer, for example. But the roadability of that
00:17:08
tire is so much better. It offsets any any reduction in traction you're going to get. And I don't know if there is any for a front-wheel assist. I mean, it's going to we have a long way to go for front assist tractors. I think the chevron pattern there will be long after me and you were out of this business. Um, and the agriculture industry is a it's a it's a very it's very slow to evolve, right? Like I mean the average farmer is what 58 59 years old. Like there's a lot
00:17:37
of just tradition in it. Y >> and an a tractor tire looks like a tractor tire has for 100 years. >> But the but again the application is dramatically different. If somebody wants to get out there and try something different, we constantly try different things and they're all very very slow to take on. >> Yeah. But we have very very little push back once somebody gets over that hurdle and tries it. Most of the people that will try those new patterns are the new generation of farmer. The people that
00:18:01
are our age that are out there watching stuff like this trying to learn about why it's different like why the tread pattern is different, what it actually matters, right? Those are the people who are actually out there willing to try stuff. >> So Alliance and you you guys have been doing I've seen out there you're calling field days. >> Field days. Yep. [clears throat] >> Pretty cool concept. M yeah. >> Um I haven't seen one in California yet, but um what what you're what are you
00:18:26
trying to do with it? >> So the field days it's we we did one this year. It was back in June, I believe it was in Ames, Iowa, and it was really something new for us. Uh we've done smaller stuff in the past, a smaller scale, different trials in the past. What we did this year is we wanted to do something on a larger scale. Uh we wanted to bring in retail dealers, end users just from the area, from around the country really, right? >> Uh to see us put our tire to the test. Uh so it there was a lot of learning
00:18:51
that we wanted to get out of it too just for our own internal measures. But what we did is we basically put our tire a couple different tires that we had against our competition in the same size, same pattern, everything like that and just tested it just see how they run in the field because you can do simulations. And that's another thing that's very difficult about a tires even testing like lab testing. You you can do a truck tire simulation anywhere anytime, right? You get you have the
00:19:16
different road terrain stuff like that. You put on a drum, let it run, and you can get a pretty good idea of what it's going to do when it gets in the field. Pretty good. [clears throat] >> With an a tire, so so hard to get something like that. Like we do a lot of drum testing where we'll run the tire. We have our own internal measures of what we want to see, things like that. Pretty much everybody does. But when you get them in the field, the the the amount of roing, the different
00:19:37
implements you put behind it are so different, it's really hard to tag down and say this is what you can expect out of that tire. Best way to do it, put it in a field, put something behind it and test them side by side in the same field as close to it as you can possibly get and try to remove as many variables as you can. That's what we did. We had a field thousand foot pass. We had, I think, seven or eight lanes side by side. We had a test lane. We had a return lane and bunch of other stuff. We
00:20:00
had a 38T field cultivator, 330 horsepower tractor. It was a 7R. We had it on uh single tires around it because dual tires on it was actually over tired, so it was more tire than you needed. We wanted to make the tires really get down and dig. >> Uh, and we ran 1,000 ft. We we we played with it and set the depth of the cultivator enough to where it really made the tractor work without sinking it, you know. >> And we just tested tractive efficiency side by side and slip. We had visual
00:20:25
measurements where I mean I was in the cab, we were monitoring um the number of rotations versus the movement. We were making all those measurements and things like that. Just really trying to understand how we stack up against the competitors that are out there. And the feedback was really good. I mean, the the goal of the whole thing was not to say that like we weren't out there trying to say that Alliance was going to perform 30% better than every competitor. That wasn't the goal. The
00:20:48
goal was to prove that we could perform as good as the tier one guys out there and do it at a better value. And that's exactly what the numbers came out to say. >> But and and I I'm going to circle back to the the Alliance performance specifically, but you guys did other stuff during this field day like pressure versus pressure, same tire, didn't you? Where you're like showing, hey, what was that? How did this how much soil compaction was at 55 PSI versus 35? >> We did. So we did so we had a couple
00:21:14
different scenarios too when we looked specifically at soil compaction. We had the tractor that we used was with a company called Agurank. >> Yeah. >> So they have a an aftermarket installed central inflation system. This was installed on the tractor. We showed we looked at compaction levels, footprint size, and things like that of like a a VF tire versus a standard radial tire versus a VF plus CTIS tire, right? >> Like all in the same pass. And the the results were pretty much what we
00:21:39
expected them to be. Standard radial if you use it as a base 100. I'm just making up numbers here because I can't remember. But the the the VF tire was 10 20% better. Whatever it was on compaction, less compaction. VF plus CTIS was even dramatically higher. >> So So the lower the pressure, the less the compaction. That was basically the story that we told ourselves. And that's what the number that's what the number showed. >> So if if I was going to recommend steps for a farmer, it would be to weigh your
00:22:04
tractor. Oh yeah. and then run it on [clears throat] max air pressure and then run it on the air pressure that's recommended at that weight. >> Yes. >> Um and in line [clears throat] with what you're saying, um that's sounds like what you guys are doing at field day, which would apply to any tire out there. >> 100%. >> Um but Agrabrink is uh a company I haven't really heard of, but it's CTIS, Central Tire Inflation System. There's a bunch of these that are coming out. Um,
00:22:34
and every tire performs better at the right air pressure. >> Completely. >> So, uh, what what is Agra Brink's unique piece on CTIS that you guys use at these field days? >> Uh, so we use their system. So, we use their technology. They have their own system. It's got an onboard air compressor. Uh, it ties right into the canvas of the tractor. I mean, you literally sit in the cab, you can push a button, air air goes up, you push another button, air goes down. >> Right. So, and and the ultimate goal of
00:22:58
CTIS is just like you said, is to run the tire at the exact right pressure at all times because that's the only time that that tire is going to perform like we have designed it to perform is when it's at the right air pressure. >> If you have too high of air pressure, you know, you're going to have higher fuel or higher fuel consumption. You're going to have higher compaction because your footprint's going to be smaller. You're going to have more heat generation on the road. All this stuff.
00:23:19
>> But if you get to the right air pressure, it's going to just make that tire the best it can possibly be. ZTIS is the best way to do it. But to your point also weighing the tractor that is the first that is key. That is absolutely critical for any any farmer. They don't need to go spend $30,000 on a CTIS system or whatever to >> is that what they cost? >> Well 20 to I mean they're anywhere between you can get systems anywhere from 5,000 bucks to 40,000. It just depends on how how extravagant
00:23:43
extravagant you want to go because you can get them on implements now. You can have it all chained together, put it on the implement as well. So if you have a big like centerfold planter, you can put it on the primaries to take the pressure from 110 PSI down to 50. >> Yeah. >> I mean, you can So you can do anything you want to. It's a playground, >> right? >> But but any farmer with any tire on any tractor can make it better by weighing it and setting the air pressure. Any of
00:24:06
them. >> Well, I'll put it out there now at this point in the episode. If there's any farmers or dealers out there listening that want a field day on the West Coast, Alliance would be interested in that. >> Absolutely. We'd be interested in in partnering and hosting on that weighing tractors, showing air pressure, what the impact is. You can put it in the comments. You can send us to or go to our website, email us. We'll set it up. Um, [clears throat] okay. So, CTIS, you've used Brink. Have
00:24:33
you used anything else? >> Uh, we we've done some other companies in the past as well. We've we've played all of them have a very similar um a similar concept. It's the same concept. >> Where where do you see that going? I mean, they're they're all in a pretty expensive price point. I mean, I would assume most most farmers and dealers look at that and go, >> I'm going to worry about that later. >> Sure. >> U, it's got to get cheaper.
00:24:52
>> Oh, yeah. >> To be more palatable. It's got to be on OE. Is it Is there any CTIS systems in OE yet? >> It is. So, this year at Farm in Progress, there were more CTIS systems there than I've ever seen. >> So, Fent has the or ACO has the Fent Varog grip. >> So, that's the the the Fent system. They also offered on a Massie Ferguson. It's not the f It's not the varog grip version, but they have a a solution on Massie Ferguson's too. >> What do you You're saying varog grip?
00:25:17
>> It's called the It's called the Varo Grip. >> That's their brand. >> That is their own proprietary CTIS system. >> John Deere [clears throat] launched one also this year on an 8. >> So the 8410 that they showed at Farm Progress had CTIS on it from the factory already as well. >> Uh and you're seeing it expand on all all over the place. It's a very very low take rate because number one, people don't understand it. people don't understand the value of it. That's what
00:25:40
the tire people are really trying to promote, saying how important air pressure actually is. >> Yeah. >> Uh in Europe, it is much much more popular already. So, it's there there's several different aftermarket groups doing it over there already. I don't know what the take rate is from OE there, but it's dramatically higher than what you see here already. >> So, it's coming. It's slow. It's going to take a long time. >> Long time. And it's still going to be a
00:26:02
very small subset. But >> until we can prove in the tire world that the impact is this many dollars on fuel yields, tire wear, etc. It's got to get to a dollar amount, right? >> Sort of. So, yeah. Well, yes, at the end of the day, yes. But, you know, where I think it would be interesting to do a study, which we have not done, um, it's just the concept, but North American farmers especially, they buy horsepower. They pay for horsepower, right? >> We love We love big stuff.
00:26:31
>> We like big stuff. We want to see the market grow. So I what what I would love to do is do a comparison side by side. Do a standard radial tire versus a VF tire versus VF with CTIS and actually show power output of those three different conditions and show that that VF plus CTIS condition at the right pressure can put more power to the ground than a standard radial. And you actually then therefore you translate more horsepower from the engine [clears throat] to the ground because you have lower slip. If you
00:26:59
could do that, then I think there's something to it, which is fuel economy, but still. >> What would the difference be? I don't think I'm tracking with you. So, if you had you have a standard radial, >> you have a VF, and then you have a VF on a CTIS system. >> Um, and you're saying put them all at the same air pressure. >> Put them at different air pressures. Put standard radial versus VF air pressure versus VF at CTIS. >> Oh, I see. >> Pull them side by side and show that
00:27:23
that VF plus CTIS can outperform the next class tractor size up. >> Uhhuh. I think that would make somebody say, "Okay, maybe instead of going for the 8410R, I can probably do an 8320 or whatever it is, right? And save some money on horsepower because I can actually put that horsepower to the ground." Look at front wheels tractors today. I mean, Fent is the perfect example. And I'm a big Fent guy or Fent fan anyway. Grew up green. Now I'm starting to look at the other green.
00:27:49
They're really impressive. I mean, the new the the 1050 Fent like 525. >> So, I hear this more and more. >> Yeah. I mean, people won't say it out loud, but they'll say it to the tire guy, right? Tire Guy's like holds all the secrets, right? >> Uh, and they're there are more and more fence coming into the West Coast. >> Huge. >> Huge. >> And look at the power those things are putting out. So, they have basically created a front-wheel assist tractor
00:28:11
that can do what a four-wheel drive did, and it's much much more efficient. So when you look at fuel fuel economy for for example you have a big enough farm that's looking between an articulating four-wheel drive which is just horsepower and weight versus a fent a big you know 1050 or whatever that fent can do everything that four-wheel drive most things that four-wheel drive can do and it's more versatile and it's more efficient at the same time people are starting to figure that out and I mean
00:28:36
fence ACO is doing the right thing with Fent. They got a long way to go. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's a lot of upside there and they're they're getting it. >> They're getting it. I I haven't heard a lot of detractors. No, but there >> Price >> and Yeah, Price. There there are some big farms out there that are using Fent and it's their favorite tractor. >> Oh, yeah. They're great. Once you once you figure out how to run them, they take a little bit. They're they're
00:28:54
different, but once you figure out how to run those things, man, there's no going back. >> So, Fent has CTIS. >> Fent has CTIS. John Deere has CTIS. Uh CH, I'm not sure. I'm not sure on the CTIS or on the on the on [clears throat] the CH so far, but I mean, >> what are they charging for the upgrade? Uh, I think the deer I asked one of the guys at at Farm Progress. So, an 8410R, I think it was like a $33,000 upcharge in the book. What that translates to on sticker, I'm not sure, but call it
00:29:21
25,000 bucks probably. >> That's interesting because I I always pencil this in my head and uh the audience here can fact check me on that, but a track unit is going to be roughly 120k more. >> Oh, yeah. >> Uh LSWs are going to be about 50 to 60,000 more. So CTIS at 30,000 that's starting to get palatable >> and you can put it on as an aftermarket solution if you want to as well. So if you have a tractor already, you don't have to get it from the factory to make
00:29:53
CTIS work. There are aftermarket solutions out there to improve the performance of what you already have. >> So how hard is that to install? I mean is that something we as tire dealers should be doing offering? >> You could. There are tire dealers that are doing it out there right now. So mostly in the Midwest. You see them in the Midwest. There's some in Canada, Eastern Canada especially, that are doing it from the aftermarket side. >> Let me let me let me give you a harder
00:30:13
one. If if we go out and install CTIS, what brands are going to have the most benefit >> as far as tire brands? >> Yeah, tire brands. So, if you've got everything, let's CTIS is this is this great system that's going to have everything running at optimum air pressure. >> What tires win at optimum air pressure? to your point, your the new Agrastar 2, the Alliance, right, performs really well under optimum conditions, >> right? Is there any others that are going to lead the pack?
00:30:46
>> I honestly don't know. I don't know if you would see anybody absolutely dramatically run away with it. >> You don't think so? >> I really don't. The the the the competitive difference between tires is not nearly as large as it used to be. I mean, it's and that's what we showed at the field day. Like when we tested we tested some big market leaders, big brands that everybody would recognize, everybody watching would recognize and who who some would have considered 10
00:31:11
years ago to be the best out there, hands down, and we ran right with them, if not better than. So there's just not a dramatic difference top to bottom. >> So I'll ask this in I'll ask this in reverse then. If a if a tire's running at 10% less optimum air pressure or 10% more than optimum air pressure, is that at maximum? Is that is that damage that that wear loss, that life loss, that performance loss equal amongst brands? or if you put 10 brands next to each other and they're all at max air
00:31:44
pressure as opposed to op optimum that [clears throat] they're some are going to lose more uh value than others. >> H that's a good question and I really don't know. >> Yeah, you see where I'm going with this. If you had a 710742 uh what's that? a John Deere 8 series 9 series 9R 9R right 710 7042 that tire is anywhere from 3000 to 6000 somewhere in the ballpark >> somewhere in the ballpark and you get the ultra premium 6000 we won't name any names but a $6,000 the best of the best
00:32:16
tire out there >> and someone just maxes out the air pressure on it versus a Alliance which is a middle of the road the Aggristar 2 is a is a value proposition and supposed to be a middle- of the road price for a premium performance >> that is also at the wrong air pressure, >> right? How much life is lost on that one or loss in performance? >> I still don't think you're going to see a lot of difference between the two. >> It's going to be equivalent, >> I think. So, and I don't have any data
00:32:40
to back that up. That's just me coming right off the top of my head. >> So, my argument I get that position. My argument is if you don't if you buy the ultra premium and you don't take care of it, you don't have it at the optimum air pressure, then you're losing those amount of costs per hour that you put into it. >> Sure. And so, and there's another way to look at that, too. So, looking at at where we play kind of in the tier 2 value space versus a tier one super
00:33:06
premium, whatever that may be, if the performance is similar between where we where we are, let's use that 71042 example. Yeah. >> Let's say we're at X dollars, the tier one is at X plus 50%. >> But they perform very similarly, what are you actually paying for? >> I I I get I get that point. Absolutely. if it if it performs that well. I'm just making the argument that if you're if you're buying the ultra premium for whatever reason, let's [clears throat]
00:33:32
say it's a 710742 that gets um we'll call it uh 8,000 hours, >> right? I think it's a great run for good. Yeah. >> And you paid six grand for it, but you lost 10% because you had it the wrong air pressure. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Versus fair Alliance, right? If you've got, let's say, you're getting 7,000, you're getting 7500, 6,500, >> well in there for a price discount of 20 30%. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Then if you're still running at
00:34:01
the wrong air pressure, then that cost of running at the wrong wrong air pressure was lower than the ultra premium. >> Fair enough. And I understand where you're at and you're right. Yes. Correct. >> Okay. I agree. I think that's an interesting point from a a buying decision like as I as I talk to farmers about hey let's say you your you your position is I'm not able to maintain the perfect air pressure right I feel like that's something that I get pretty regularly Joe you're in a fantasy world
00:34:26
as a tire guy on the air pressure I can't take out the air when I get in the field put more air into it when I get on the road got guys moving all over the place >> we're farmers we're used to stuff being hard on it and it needs to run regardless So under that premise, that's where I would say, okay, hey, look in here because don't buy the Porsche if you're not going to race. >> Yeah, fair enough. And that's where the tier 2 segment that we play in is that's
00:34:52
I think that's one of the reasons that it's been growing is because I mean 100% >> dramatically growing is because the value is is I mean the performance is great that we stand behind it with our warranty and all the other fun stuff we do and the per and and the the price difference there is just enough to make it make sense. So the [clears throat] value segment has grown tremendously. Uh but tracks and LSWS are also much larger than they were 30 years ago. >> Let's start with why.
00:35:23
>> We'll start with tracks. Tracks is really interesting. And that that's something that I mean it's just just kind of I don't want to say came out of nowhere because hindsight's 2020, but I mean just south of here, the central valley of California is really the birthplace of tracks in agriculture. >> Yes. yellow low twot track machines are still everywhere here. They people just put new engines in them and they just keep going. >> But that's really where it started for
00:35:45
like chisels and stuff like that where you really needed just a chipped up engine. >> Isn't Isn't it Holt? I mean, isn't there Holt started the the metal tracks metal tracks on >> in the Modesto area. >> Yeah. And then you had the Challenger or the or the old cap two track rubber tracks came out. >> So that's where it started. it spread and I think there's a mult there's multiple reasons why I think tracks took off. Um if you look I saw a picture this
00:36:10
was I don't even remember a year ago or so where CH actually showed a fourtrack frontwheel assist at Farm Progress in 1986. >> Wow. >> A four track. >> Really? >> A frontwheel assist. And it never never took off. I don't not I don't think they ever commercialized it. It was a concept but it was it was a weird looking thing. you know, the old boxy Case International style >> and and that was 1986. That's the year I was born. >> Okay. Now, we come to today where
00:36:38
four-wheel drives coming off of the Fargo factory with CNH, it's like I mean it's like I mean probably three out of every four have belts on them now. And I think the reason it did that is because number one, >> three out of every four >> probably. It's probably pretty for four-wheel drives, it's probably pretty close to that. >> Wow. >> If I had to guess, it's up there. So, if I if I had to guess, I would say I think there's a couple different things that
00:36:58
happened. I think the horsepower that people were shooting for, people being the OEMs that were shooting for tires just weren't set up for it. I think a lot of people got gunshy with power hop and road lope when radial tires first came into the market. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, there was a there were people that were there were tire people that were designated toward figuring out power hop and road lope because ballasting and weight and all this stuff and horsepower. It was just this this
00:37:22
perfect storm of bias tires really didn't do it. And and power hop for for for the viewers that are watching. Power hop is when the tire the sidewall of the tire finally just starts to recoil and it the tractor will bounce and I've seen four-wheel drives come off the ground. It's terrifying. >> Um bias tires don't do that because bias tires just don't flex that much, >> right? >> Radial tires do. So when radial tires came in, power hop became a thing. When I if tires came in soon after that,
00:37:48
power hop got worse. tracks don't power hop because there's no there's nothing to hop, right? So, I think people saw it as a solution to where they did not have to worry about power hopping and road loop anywhere or power hop anymore. So, they said, you know what, that's it. The other thing that tracks did really well is they is is OEMs marketed it as a and still market it as a guaranteed source of traction. And I'm not going to argue that too much. Like tracks provide a lot of
00:38:14
traction. It is what it is. basically laying down a rubber belt and driving over the top of it. That's what you're doing. So there are applications where I don't think tires are going to come back in any case, right? Like um large grain carts, for example, it's predominantly tracks now over a thousand bushel. Um and I don't see that coming back too much. I've talked to very few people who come back to tires after going to tracks on something like that. Four-wheel drives, maybe. Maybe. I don't know if
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it'll ever get back. It'll never get back to where it was where even at 25% tracks versus tire. I don't think it'll ever get back there. But I think there's going to be a transition back a little bit to tires. Number one, because of cost because you, like you said, it's $120, $130,000 difference between tracks to tires. >> That's an initial price. And >> and they're maintenance intensive. [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> And they're very maintenance intensive
00:39:01
and they don't road well or so. I mean, if you're if you're trans if you're transporting from farm to farm and you're running 40, 50, 60, 80, 100 miles, tracks wear out really quickly. Not just the belt itself, but the bogeies, the bearings, the all the other fun stuff that's there. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, there there's a cost associated with it. Some people assume that cost is just the cost of doing business and the cost of it's almost like an insurance policy. Like, yep,
00:39:21
it's $200,000 more with with, you know, upcharge versus maintenance, but I know I can get in the field when I need to go. But what's that compared to? Is that compared to a tractor like we just said, 90% of tractors with have tires that are over inflated? >> It's not a very good sideby-side test to say tracks are dramatically better when you really never gave tires a shot. Mhm. >> And then you throw CTIS in it or VF. Let's just talk VF. Put CTIS on a shelf for now. Just going VF with dropping
00:39:50
your air pressure by 40%. I guarantee you with a four-wheel drive, I can outrun a track on dry ground. >> Say that one more time. >> So, if you go like VF, if you drop, let's say you're going you're at 12 psi in your current machine, four-wheel drive, and you could drop that down to 8 PSI versus a fourtrack machine, >> I can run with it with the right air pressure. the right air pressure versus a track tires will be just fine. Now, if as the ground gets more and more wet,
00:40:15
things like that, sure, there may be a difference there. There may start to be a little bit difference in performance. I don't know what that is. Never done it. But side by side with the right air pressure, if people give tires a shot and put the right air pressure in them, I can save them 120,000 bucks >> and it'll work just fine. >> Not [clears throat] including maintenance. >> Not including maintenance. >> Okay. So, tracks come to be. You've got road uh road lope, road hop, um power
00:40:41
hops, powerop power hop. [clears throat] >> Um they needed a solution and you're right, it did just kind of go boom. >> Oh, it Yeah. >> Uh it blew up. Um OEM saw it on the compact side. I think that that certainly played a role, right? >> Uh skid steers, uh Mini X's that just went >> and they are very profitable from the OEM side. >> Hugely profitable. And there's they're and they're they're profitable as parts and the rest of it. We won't get too
00:41:08
much into that, but >> um it's it's it's a big money-making machine. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um what about LSWS? LSWS had a similar time time span when they got popular, but probably a little different road. >> Uh how'd they get so popular? I mean, there's people out there looking for an alternative to tracks >> and and so if if tracks are too expensive, a technology like the the LSW from Goodyear, I mean, it it serves that purpose, right? And there's and hey,
00:41:35
let's face it, they look cool. I'm not going to say they don't look cool. They look cool. >> They look great. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, so there's people that have accepted it. We have not gone down that road. Uh we think that a properly inflated VFR is still a better a better option, and that's kind of the road we're going down. Um, >> so let's let's talk about that a little bit because the argument on the LSW side is that you have a narrower sidewall, so
00:41:59
you're not going to get the power hop. >> Yep. >> You're not going to get the road loop. >> Yep. >> Um, that's one of the reasons why it's so great. It gets more footprint on the ground. It's it's it's a super single ultra wide and and for a farmer, for a dealer, that's easy to conceptualize. Put a big tire on, put more power to the ground, >> done, over with. um from a VF standpoint, what's the counterargument to that? >> So, we've done a good many footprint
00:42:26
comparisons out there just trying to understand the low sidewall stuff and just trying to understand where we stand. >> Yeah. >> The where VF tires have a superiority versus an LSW is LSW that sure they have a huge footprint, but it's a very wide footprint. It's not necessarily a very long footprint. >> Okay, I'm tracking. Yeah. Because with the the low sidewall technology, there's just not a lot of sidewall there to flex. The flexion in the sidewall is where you get your longer footprint. So,
00:42:54
if you do like a dual VF 4880 R50 versus a comparative uh LSW product, that VF 4880 R50 and a dual will give you a larger footprint, gross flat plate for the DS versus the single, [snorts] >> right? Just because you're able to drop that sidewall down, get a longer footprint, put more rubber on the ground because not only do you have the width, you have the length. >> Huh. >> So again, there are people that like it. I'm not here to knock it. They've done very well. >> They all they all have their place that
00:43:25
I am 100% have been on that boat for a long time. Is this is not two different uh well, if it is two different religions or three different religions, they're they all got their own piece of the pie at this point. This is not a This is not a a Spark Colt. >> Yeah. No, >> this is This is here to stay. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's not going But again, we we we're pretty we're convinced. We We have convinced ourselves. We've seen the We've done the research in the field to show that more
00:43:52
because at the end of the day, the tire carries no weight. The air inside the tire does. So, we want to offer as large of an a volume of air inside that tire as humanly possible to give you the biggest footprint and the most capacity you can. >> Yeah. So, how does VF go through its next chapter? You know, one of the arguments I've made since it came out is it still kind of feels like uh voodoo magic to to a farmer. It still the same looking tire. It just costs $1,000 more. >> Same wheel, same everything. Yeah.
00:44:19
>> Same Well, there they say put bigger wheels on, bigger air chamber, all that. >> Um but still, it just looks like another tire compared to LSW, which is a bigger tire compared to the track, which is clearly uh different. Um, what's BF's next chapter to basically answering that that high horsepower, that soil compaction, that traction problem that farmers want to solve. >> There's a couple different things. I think there's still a long way to go with tire manufacturers adopting CTIS
00:44:51
and understanding how to loop CTIS into VF tires. So, there's not really a bonus a regulator or a regulated bonus [clears throat] that I'm aware of for running CTIS plus VF. So, when you have a VF tire, it's just a D-rated schedule. So, it's just rated for 40 miles an hour. You have one schedule to look at. >> I think there's an opportunity to do something beyond that. Personally, this is just James talking. I don't think there's like a I don't know if there's a
00:45:14
huge opportunity for VVF or whatever you want to call it that's going to be 60% less instead of 40%. Because if you're not maintaining your air pressure, it doesn't matter anyway, right? So, I think if you're able to incorporate CTIS into this whole system and have some type of bonus because you're running the right air pressure at all times, as a tire manufacturer, we should be able to remove some of the safety factor that we build into tires because we assume they're all over inflated or
00:45:38
underinflated. So, there's a safety factor built into every tire. >> But, if you have CTIS and it's running the right pressure at all times, we can back that down, give you a lower pressure, give you more capacity. So, I think there's I think that's the next step of VF. It's incorporating the proper air pressures into VF at all times because right now we got all the capacity you need. You need capacity. We've got a tire that carries 66,000 lbs now. I mean >> the capacities have gotten nuts. I I I
00:46:02
saw the whole new Aggraar 2 chart. Um I mean for West Coast it's it's overkill by a th00and 2,000 pounds of tire. >> Oh sure. Yeah. I mean yeah capacity. We've got all the capacity you need in the world. Um, lower air pressures are lower air pressure is another thing. I mean, right now the bottom of the load inflation system or load inflation pressure table is 6 psi. So for like a big 71042, we keep using that one because it's very common, but you can go down to 6 psi in the in the T in the
00:46:31
tire and rim association and the regulatory stuff for that. Going to four, are you going to see that much of a difference? Is it any and is anybody really going to be able to do that and maintain it? So I don't know if that's the right way. So, I think just being able to reduce the amount of pressure you need to run within that parameter of that, you know, 6 psi, whatever you need to carry your weight, being able to reduce the pressure needed for that, give some kind of bonus if you're
00:46:53
running VF plus CTIS. I think that's the next step because there's something there. I don't know what it I have no idea. I'm not There are no industry secrets that I'm aware of, but I think there's something there to benefit people that are running CTIS. >> Yeah, I I'm with you. CTIS needs to be brand agnostic. It needs to make a run. Um, needs to get cheaper. I mean, there's there's pressure sensors. We put them in in a tires, mining tires now. Oh, yeah.
00:47:15
>> Uh they're they're hundred bucks. >> Yeah. >> Um and probably going to get cheaper and cheaper. >> Oh, sure. Well, I mean, think about it. So, that's that's a big push right now is that people are coming out with tires that are CTIS ready, right? So, we multiple brands are doing it. It's just kind of what does that mean? It doesn't mean anything at all because a bias tire CTIS ready. >> What is it? Doesn't mean if you have a if you have a variable of air inside the
00:47:38
tire, the tire CTIS ready. Is that like uh when we see the the passenger tires that are EV ready? >> Yeah. What does that mean? [laughter] >> I mean I mean I'm sure there's something in I don't know passenger car at all but I'm sure there's some magic in it that makes it I don't know what that is but >> I crack up when I see it. I I What does it mean it's ready for high torque like maybe or more weight? I don't know. >> But but CTIS ready tires I don't think I
00:48:03
mean all tires are CTIS ready as long as it has air in it. >> Yeah. Um but I but again I think incorporating in some type of bonus because that farmer is going to run the right air pressure at all times. I think that's the next step. I think there's something there. >> So James uh you're really passionate about a >> Oh yeah. [laughter] Oh yeah. >> Uh and that's why you're here. U we do a segment on the show called BTE. What's your big dog energy? I mean, with this
00:48:28
much passion, was there a moment in your career where you were like, "Hey, this is freaking cool, or this is what I want to continue doing?" I mean, we joke all the time about being stuck in the tire industry, but but honestly, was there a moment where you're like, "I absolutely want to continue doing this." >> I don't know if there's one specific moment. I think when So, my first venture into tires in in any form or fashion, I moved when I got out of college, I moved from South Carolina to
00:48:53
De Mo, Iowa. I had never been further away from home than four hours away before that. Before I was 23 years old, never been further away than Tennessee. And Wow. Yeah. The the the p the company that hired me out of college thought it'd be a good idea if I lived in Iowa and covered Iowa for for agriculture tires for aftermarket sales. >> Yeah. >> So went to Iowa blindfolded. Didn't know anything about it really. And I was just blown away. Absolutely. And I still to this day I could drive around Iowa for
00:49:18
10 hours during harvest, especially during harvest and just watch equipment run. Like especially at night at night in Iowa like it would during harvest it looks like little spaceships out in the field just as far as you can see. It's just dust and lights. >> And that just does it for me. I don't know why. And it's not necessarily a tire thing. It's just an agriculture thing. I just want agriculture to be something that that is close to what I'm doing and what I'm and like my daily
00:49:44
activity and tires just happen to be my avenue for it. So I don't know there's not and you know something else I really enjoy that every year when it comes around it's just a headache and I dread it but something simple like farm progress. So the farm progress show >> it's like an a nerd's paradise and I am a pure a nerd. It is an a nerds paradise. Like I enjoy that show so much. I've been to 15 in a row and I love it and like that's something that just drives me. Like I really I love
00:50:12
going to those things and just seeing what everybody's doing. >> I I need to go next year. Have you been you've been to World A Expo? Oh yeah. And that's something I've been to for I guess it's now 20 plus years. >> Um and I love it. You know it much of it doesn't change but a few things change. >> Um and as you talk about with with a and farming I mean that's the nature of things, right? And so if there's something new, it's relatively significant
00:50:37
>> and you're testing to see whether it's going to be there next year. Is it going to gain traction? Are there going to be two tractors or four pieces of equipment next year with it? >> That's the cool thing is being able to [clears throat] watch the trends. All right. So, um I in 2010 I went to my first far in progress. Like there was a track machine there and everybody was just staring at it, taking pictures of it. Now they're everywhere. >> Um this year I talked about CTIS
00:51:00
systems. There were CTS systems in multiple different boots. Never seen that before. Next year we'll see. >> So what's farm progress like compared to World A Expo Tari? >> Similar. Um so the Tari show is much more of course just because of the region it's in. Much more specialty crops, things like that. So you see smaller machines, more specialized applications. You see a lot more hay, >> um a lot more forage, stuff like that. When you go to So next year the Farm Progress Show will be in Boon in Boone,
00:51:26
Iowa. So central Iowa. Uh it it alternates from Boone to Decar, Illinois. Every year it bounces back and forth. >> I didn't know that. >> Yeah. Two fixed sites. >> Yeah. >> That they finally paved and I'm very glad of that. >> But um those shows are more about like it's bigger lots, um bigger machinery, and it's more consistency from booth to booth. Like I like going to the Tari show because every booth you walk to, they're talking about something
00:51:53
different. Like they're talking about a different crop or a different process or a different >> Yeah. whatever. I mean, there's just so much. >> We do everything. >> It's so incredible. Like, there's so much variety >> with Farm Progress. It's corn, beans, and wheat. >> That's it. It's corn, beans, and wheat. Uh, even the difference between like Farm Progress and Husker Harvest, which is in Nebraska, and it's two weeks after Farm Progress every year. Those two
00:52:15
shows are dramatically different. You go to Nebraska, it's all about pivot irrigation, cattle, rowcrop as well. But Farm Progress show in Iowa or Illinois, it is corn, beans, and wheat. That's it. big stuff, big booths, big attendance. This year was one of the better years I've seen. >> And it's kind of a tough year for ACT. >> It is. And I was really surprised. So what I was preparing myself internally to say, hey, if we have an off year, like it's going to be fine because, you
00:52:43
know, just uncertainty out there in the markets. The market, the commodity markets have been stagnant for a very long time. Uh all the news is very difficult for agriculture right now for the most part. I mean, it's just it's just difficult right now. things are difficult. There's a lot of a lot of uncertainty out there and uncertainty is never good >> uh for any market, but especially agriculture. So, I wasn't expecting a big show, but we had more people than I've seen the last five years. Don't I
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can't tie it to one thing, but we had a very, very good show. >> You know, uh Tari was pretty decent this year, too. And I was surprised by that. >> Yeah, I can't explain it. But I don't know. >> Yeah, >> we had we had great conversations. I mean, people are I think from the tire person's perspective, it was a good year because people are holding on to their equipment a lot or longer than they used to. So, instead of a one year, two year, threeear cycle, they're holding on to it
00:53:34
for four or five. So, that creates an opportunity for a tire replacement at some point on the first owner or the second owner. >> What is the average hold time of the piece of equipment? >> It depend. Big front will assist. I mean, three to five years. >> Really? >> Yeah. And they'll flip it and somebody else gets normally the second owner that gets it is probably pretty local. They'll stay local. they'll flip it to somebody within the area and then after that it kind of trickles down.
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>> What about four-wheel drive? >> Four-wheel drive they probably hang on to a little bit longer. I don't know for certain >> uh because they just get less hours on them too. So, I mean a frontwheel assist is kind of the do it all. It's the Swiss Army knife of the Swiss Army knife of the farm. So, it's going to do kind of everything. Yeah. Four-wheel drive, it's going to rip. It's going to pull a planter in some cases, but it's not going to get too many hours, so you can
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probably hang on to it. >> Huh. >> And it's a bigger checkerite. Much bigger checkite. >> Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure there's some data out there on that on how long they keep them. >> I'm sure. I don't know what it is, but I know front front front will assist is normally the first that's the that's the thing that gets flipped pretty quickly, >> but people are hanging on to them more. >> So, >> equipment wise, you got any predictions
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for the next 5 10 years. >> Oo, I don't [clears throat] know. I mean, speed is always the thing that concerns me like as a tire guy. Like every time I sit down with an OEM, because that's one of the parts of my job I really do enjoy. You talk about the the big dog energy. Like going and sitting down with my counterpart at an OEM always excites me because I'm like, "Hey, tell me what's new." Like, "What are you guys wanting to do?" Because I I need to start working on something to satisfy
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like yesterday, right? Love that. >> And that's that's a part of what you do, right? >> It is. So, I'm supposed to have a crystal ball and look into the future, understand what the trends and the and the demands are going to be of tomorrow's farmer and start working on that product today and have enough data to back it up. And you guys just built the the largest farm tire. >> We did. We built the largest farm tire in the world by volume. >> Uhhuh. >> So it is a IF145
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R42. >> It's massive. 92 in tall. >> We can't call it LSW. >> No. No. It's got a big sidewall to it. So it's a 45 aspect or or aspect ratio. So the sidewall is super tall. >> Yeah. >> Uh 207 I think load index. So it'll carry about 66,000. >> And that was an OE request. That was so we worked with our our partners at J&M grain carts for that one. They wanted to build >> they wanted to build a grain cart. This I think it was like 2200 bushels single
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axle. >> They wanted to build one that would compete with a track because of the people that are price conscious. So they wanted to have a more economical solution for somebody who wanted a giant cart on a track. >> And that thing is impressive. Like the cart and the tire together. Like we literally modeled the tire. They built the cart around it. And it's just massive. It's huge. 400 horsepower minimum pull. I mean, it's huge. >> So, is that where you think it's going?
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I mean, I asked you, I interrupted you, but uh what's what's coming next in equipment? And how does it relate to tires? >> The only thing consistent with equipment is that they're getting bigger. They're getting heavier. They're getting they're getting heavier. They're getting more powerful. That's the only thing that's consistent. >> Who Who can a We talked about this on the way on on earlier today. I mean, who can afford a $1.5 million uh cotton
00:56:39
picker anymore? Oh, cotton. There's a lot of consolidation in agriculture, too. So, if you look at I mean the the the the the family farm is still very alive and well in in North America for sure, but there is consolidation out there where people are selling out. Like a farmer that has 5600 acres, >> I don't know how long they're going to hang on. And and and the other dynamic that you see is the SEC is the next generation doesn't always want to come back to the middle of Kansas and take
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over the family farm. They want to go they go to college and they stay where they go to college. they want to do something else because farming is hard. >> Yeah. >> And farming is very hard and it's risky and so those the the first generation or the previous generation sells it off. So there's a lot of that happening. With that comes buying power. >> Yeah. >> Um and with all that though, I mean the only true trend is bigger and heavier. And then I think at some point Well, you
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know what though? If you really think about it, I think at some point it's going to kind of taper back down. This is just me talking to looking in my crystal wall. >> Yeah. Because autonomyy's coming around, right? I mean, autonomy like there were there were tractors all especially in this area. >> There were tractors at Farm in Progress pulling grain carts with nobody in them. I mean, this stuff's been out for years. It's just being validated, tested, and going through all the red tape. Now,
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>> um electrification is has its area, too, especially in this market. Yeah. >> Uh when you look at like vineyards, things like that where they want zero emissions and all that. >> Yeah. The Monarch. >> Monarch. Yeah. There's a couple. I mean, it makes perfect sense. >> Yeah. Um, but if you have an autonomous machine that can run 24 hours a day by itself if it needs to, why does it need to be 900 horsepower and pull something behind it that's 100 feet wide? Because
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that's all about being efficient, right? That's all about being efficient with time, things like that. >> The argument less horsepower can run 24/7, be at the optimum RPMs the whole time, >> be more efficient overall. So instead of having one 900 horsepower tractor, maybe you have six tractors that are 125 horsepower that do the same work >> and it does it more efficiently. So maybe there's that. I think the the electrification idea is always interesting, too. I don't know how much
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I don't know how I don't know how it's going to do long term really with with a >> but it turns the the farm into more of a hive. All right. So you'd have like a central station where they would charge refill and then the little machines would just kind of go back and forth. They would be a lot smaller. They'd be a lot more efficient. They'd be a lot more environmentally friendly. >> Yeah. >> So there they could do that. Um >> there's a lot of change coming.
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>> It would it would change a lot. And if it's going to happen, it's going to happen out here in California for sure. >> Um it could change dealer farmer relationships because they could run entire leasing maintenance programs. You don't touch anything. We set up the power station. We set up the autonomous routes. >> Done. Over with >> you. Think about them. I mean, yeah, setting up a fleet. I mean, it would it would completely change everything. you would have a fleet of tractors,
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literally a fleet of tractors. >> And think about it from the yield perspective. If you have, again, >> if you have a 900 horsepower tractor that or 800 horsepower tractor, let's say, or 700, because 700 is where everybody's shooting for because it gets you over the emissions stuff. So, you don't have to do deaf and all that stuff. You can just have a big diesel engine at 700 plus. That's why everybody's shooting for at least that. >> So, if you have 700 horsepower tractor,
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105 pounds per PTO horsepower, that tractor is going to weigh 72,000 lbsish, somewhere in that ballpark. 72 75,000 lb, call it whatever. Why do you need a 75,000lb tractor on your field if you can have a tractor at 100 horsepower that weighs 10,000 lb. So your compaction argument really flips it on its head, too. So in have instead of having all the compaction of that giant tractor, you have smaller tractors that barely do any compaction damage at all and your yield increases. >> Yeah, >> there's an argument there.
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>> Yeah. Which means tires would need to run 247. But you think about it too now instead of tires focusing on more capacity, more life, all or more capacity mainly lower pressures and all this stuff, the tires for those smaller tractors like like Monarch's electric tractor, they're already out there. >> Yeah. >> I mean, and they don't need a ton of capacity anymore. >> No, it's not capacity. You need uh probably uh heat buildup, heat resistance, and life >> and tread life.
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>> Yeah. >> Changes the whole argument. >> Yeah. Huh. Okay. Um, probably conversation for another year. >> Oh, yeah. It's coming. It's coming. >> Um, James, this has been great. >> Yeah, I really appreciate it. >> Um, you got anything last left for the viewers? >> Oh, yeah. If you want to learn more about Alliance Tires, what we can do for you, just check out our website. >> Okay, James, thank you. Let's air this one up. >> Sounds good. Thank you.
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>> Thanks
